I didn't know if this should go in sports, wrestling or TV, so I put it here.

Did anybody watch the Griffin / Bonnar fight Saturday? If you didn't, you missed a truelly brutal display of violence. It's worth checking out the replay tonight even if you are not a fan of MMA. It's not like the gyus display a lot of skill, but they certainly stand there and punch each other in the face for 15 minutes. Loads of fun.

I actually have been getting into UFC because of ultimate fighter, and yes I watched that fight in all of it's awesomeness this past weekend. I'm REALLY thinking of ordering this week, but I might just get it on shill from some people I know. Anyone else here interested?

plus, I couldn't get over Shamrock getting his ass handed to him.

Also, now I don't know everything about MMA and whatnot. But I actually thought that Bonner won that fight.

I would have imagined a draw, or Bonnar getting a split decision. Judges are always weird in any pro-fighting. I am very interested in Lidell / Couture II. I may try to get hold of it if the review looks good.

I would have to say that I'm pretty interested in Liddell/Couture II myself. Who you picking WMD? I'm going with Couture myself......

Shamrock has never been that great of an MMA fighter. He built that nice record against mostly guys that have losing records.

But good to see UFC picking up some steam here. I've got people coming over for UFC 52 on Saturday and I can easily say I'm looking forward to this more than Mania. Forest/Bonnar just made me that much more excited for the PPV.

So MD, you've been following UFC since the show started at least right?

I used to follow in the really early days but lost interest for whatever reason and started watching again when the show started.

Thankfully my FoxSports picked up the UFC show this week so I can get a weekly fix. 3 of my other friends have gotten hooked by the show so I'm hoping this PPV gets them hooked even more so I have a crew to split PPV costs with every other month.

I might consider reviewing the hour UFC show in the future.

Here's the card for UFC 52:

Light Heavyweight Title Match:
Randy Couture © 13-6-0 vs. Chuck Liddell 14-3-0

My Pick: Rand Couture, he's just been on fire for the last couple of years and I think his ground game will just be too much for Liddell after seeing their first match.

Welterweight Title Match:
Matt Hughes © 38-4-0 vs. Frank Trigg 13-2-0

My Pick: Matt Hughes

Welterweight Bout:
Georges St. Pierre 7-1-0 vs. Jason Miller 22-4-0

My Pick: Georges St. Pierre

Middleweight Bout:
Patrick Cole 5-1-0 vs. Lee Murray 9-1-1

Heavyweight Bout:
Mike Van Arsdale N/A vs. John Marsh 12-4-0

Middleweight Bout:
Matt Lindland 9-2-0 vs. Travis Lutter 7-1-0

Middleweight Bout:
Ivan Salaverry 9-3-1 vs. Joe Riggs 21-4-0

Light Heavyweight Bout:
Travis Wiuff 22-3-0 vs. Renato Sobral 10-2-0


I'll see if I can find the Vegas betting lines on the fights later this week. I only made picks on fighter's I've seen or seen in a good fight. I've seen Lindland before but he lost a fight because he messed up a suplex and landed on his head.

Just a request...you could review the PPV this weekend, at least in short form?


I'd much prefer Couture to win, but I've got a sneaking suspension that Lidell is going to be too intense for this fight. Couture is getting up there in age too, so his great performances are going to start coming fewer and farther between.

Yeah, I'll DVR it and try to have a review of it on Monday.

Shoot Fighting is a sport... I think, so in the immortal words of Celebrity Deathmatch Mills Lane, I'll allow it. :)

I haven't watched a UFC show since 1997, so I'm WAY out of the ring here.

So MD, since you seem to have followed it more than others here.....

What other fights look promising on this PPV?

I've actually followed it a good bit myself.

The only other two fights on the card that really intrigue me are Hughes vs. Trigg and Linland vs. Lutter, though you never know what might turn into a great fight.

Yeah, I would Trigg/Hughes match I did see some build for, so I would consider that as one I'd want to see. Plus, I DVR'd the midnight UFC show last night on FSN. I'll have to give it a watch today after work.

Matt Huges vs. Frank Trigg should be good. A lot of the undercard fights have potential as I know guys like Lee Murray usually are entertaining.

The Lindland/Lutter fight should be good but like I said the fight I saw Lindland in he KOd himself. I wish they had someone like Genki Sudo on the card.

I had the Bonnar/Forest fight at 29-29 but if you put a gun to my head and made me choose a winner I would've agreed with the 29-28 decision for Forest. I had the first round an easy 10-9 for Forest, the second an easy 10-9 for Bonnar and the third round as a draw.

Was there any chance of it going to sudden death?

I'd say, draws do happen. The judges get weird bugs up their asses during fights though and they'll decide a winner of a very close round. Still better than boxing judges though.

I think they had some TV time constraints to worry about, but by UFC rules it could have definitely gone to sudden death. I'm glad it didn't thogh, those guys were getting sloppy.

I do agree. A 4th Round might've taken some of the luster off of the fight and I think Forest might've gotten KOd in a sudden death.

Personally, I would have been mad about the decision had they not offered both guys contracts.

I figured by Round 2 that both guys had earned a contract. You could see Dana White getting a boner after that 1st Round.

I was still a little mad about the decision. I just thought Stephan landed more consistently stronger shots.

I think what hurt Bonnar a bit in my eyes was that he let a really really gassed out Forest take him down a few times.

That I could see, but shouldn't it mean something if a guy looks alright and the other guys face is totally bloodied and fucked up?

I'm asking because I'm not too sure on how it's judged. That's how it goes in boxing though.

There's a lot that goes on in judging. Damage vs. shots thrown plays in. They'll dock you if you're basically just tapping someone the whole fight. Moving forward and backwards effects you as they'll dock you for backing up too much. Takedowns and who's on top more gets figured in. Though you can save yourself by hitting a lot of shots from the bottom. They might also judge how you act after each round to determine how you're doing. Acting like you won or are winning is important.

Personally, I think they got caught up in the motion. Forrest was hurt early, and I thought that fight wouldn't last. But to take so many shots, and bleed so much, and keep coming forward...not to mention the punishment he delivered in the proccess. Either way, great fight that I'd love to see again.

So basically takedowns and the like are probably the most important things to a fighter then (as far as scoring goes)....

I'm not totally sure on that. Usually if a guy dominates the takedown side of the match he's winning he war in general.

From what I've seen, I think takedowns are judged behind strikes and groundwork. It's just that in a match this close you go, Well griffin did have the takedowns.

It's kind of sad seeing the feedback on WON and realizing how many people actually buy into the Ken Shamrock "legend".

After watching it for the second time last night during the replay, I thought to myself about Griffin having him in the takedowns category. So I guess in that regard I could understand why he won.

In fairness, Shamrock is a UFC legend. He's certainly not their best fighter ever, but he's the most recognizable personna in their history. The sport is just so young and small, that early on ( when Shamrock was effective), there just wasn't a large talent pool to draw from.

Well, who would be considered the greatest fighter of all time? Personally I would think it's someone in the Gracie family, but there were years were I paid NO attention to MMA.

It's hard to say, but honestly, I don't think it would be someone in UFC. A lot of Pride and K-1 guys are just a lot more skilled.

I'd say Royce Gracie would probably be considered the best fighter. He's usually the name you hear.

I'm curious as to who's your favorite fighters so far. I've taken to Genki Sudo a lot after seeing his matches. He's a highly entertaining fighter and at 150 lbs. he beat that fat ass Butterbean in a fight. Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture of course are high up the list of my favorites as well.

I'll be watching the Ultimate Fighter Finale, since everyone seems to be saying good things about it. All I've seen was Shamrock being made a bitch in about 2:00.

You'll be a UFC convert when Bonnar/Forest gets about 30 seconds into the 1st Round.

It hooked me.....

I taped it last night since I was preoccupied writing a WWE hate letter (kidding...), so I'll be watching it later.

UFC should get a national TV deal dammit! (mad that Sunshine Network quit airing UFC fights)