I've been watching a lot of Rey Mysterio from his DVD. I'll post thoughts on the matches later.

Oh, just make one lump topic of this... and I just watched the most horrible things you can imagine... the WWF Piledriver Music Videos.

Gene Okerlund singing about smoking pot and sex = NOT very interesting.

Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesner - No Way Out 2004

-It's been some time since I've seen this match so I figured it was about time to get to watching again. This match held up VERY well and it was even better than I remember it being. I enjoyed the legwork by Eddie in this one and it set up a nice framework for both of them to work under. I really enjoyed the sequence that they did with Brock blocking Eddie from working the knee further over the steel pole. This match feels absolutely NOTHING like a WWE main event and seems to have an element all it's own, which is incredibly refreshing compared to what the company has been offereing lately. Not to mention the fact that Brock is better than most of the main crop these days and you'd be foolish to think that he wouldn't help if he returned. Plus, another thing that surprised me was the Eddie surely wasn't carrying the load himself as both men were instrumental parts of the match. Also, the reaction Eddie got to winning the title was MIND-BLOWING as they were going nuts. That was probably the last time I heard a reaction like that in the WWE........

Yeah, I think I commented on this match last month. I didn't remember how good it was. I thought it was the epitome of what a good WWE style main event should be. The run-in and ref bump actually helped the match in my opinion. Those elements are so overused by WWE they usually destroy a match for me. This was the case of two great workers doing a realistic type match for their respective styles, and pulling it off nearly perfect. I would give this WWE match of the year.

IMO, it probably is the match of the year. I still can't believe people find the Mania 3-way better than this match. Honestly, there are so many more holes in the 3-way than in this match, but I would love to listen to someone trying to explain to me HOW exactly the 3-way was better than Eddie/Brock though........

Just to gauge your ratings, how many *'s would you give this match?

What Eddie/Brock?

Uh, yeah. Just curious. I'm not gonna dispute it or anything, I know it's just an opinion. I just know it's a match we both like, and just wanted to see where our standards are set.

Also just curious: What are the flaws in Benoit/HHH/HBK? I don't think it's ***** (**** probably), but I still think it's MOTY. Brock/Eddie I just couldn't get into until the last 5 or so minutes.

I would put the Eddie/Brock match at about ****1/4 WMD. Hey, I'm all open for a debate WMD, so I'd be glad to listen to any criticizm on my rating.


CB, for one there is the usual HBK no selling, as is Triple H at periods of the match where he was bogging down the action as well. The roles in the match are clearly not defined as at points Triple H is playing the face when he shouldn't and Michaels was clusterfucking the whole thing up. I absolutly HATE the whole "throw them out of the ring until someone else is thrown out then you get back in the match" formula either. Not to mention that 3-ways are generally flawed to begin with.....

I actually thought Shawn Michaels was selling good for that match... except the spot where everyone seems to no-sell the first 2 German suplexes and then sells the 3rd like death.

For HHH, I simply thought the whole story of him in the match was to let Shawn and Benoit fight, then when 1 was incapacitated, then go after the other guy like a vulture after a recently decaying corpse.

Plus, the fact it's really the only match from beginning to end from WWE in 2004 that had me marking out like a bitch influelences my love for it a bit. For Eddie/Brock, I only marked out for Eddie winning. I'll watch the match again later since it's been too long to remember, so I can be unbias in an overall opinion.

Michaels showed moments of good selling....but it's not consistant enough.

The HHH argument doesn't hold up well. That would be a good explaination.....only that is the 3-way WWE formula. It has nothing to do with the story, it's just their horribly flawed formula.

I understand as 2004 did have some really good stuff....especially by the WWE standards so I see why you might see it that way. I promise you, watch the 3-way then Eddie/Brock back to back.....you'll see which is better.

Nah, that's right about where I'd put it.


My biggest problem with the 3-way, and I do like it, is the way it's so clear they are taking turns. That's where psychology falls short, and it just turns into a bit of a spot-fest. CB, as far as not getting into the Eddie/Brock match until late, that's part of the great design. It actually builds to a big climax. I think if you watch it again you may be surprised.

Hey WhiteMiles, seeing as you're a big Hamrick fan, what's a few good Southern Comfort matches I should check out?

What I watched lately? I watched Brock/Angle from 'Mania for the 1st time a few weeks ago, liked it. Not great, but I like both, so it was fine. Also checked out the HITC with Brock and Taker, liked that one, too. Good pace, match went the right amount of time, lots of juice, and a good ending that didn't make either look bad.

I'm also right in the middle of a Lynch comp of the Misawa/Jumbo feud, and I'm enjoying the hell out of that, too.

I'm downloading a lot of Smackdown TV/PPV matches from 2002 and 2003. Bunch of stuff with Benoit, Angle, Brock, Eddie, Rey, Team Angle, Edge, Tajiri, Matt Hardy, etc. I'll post thoughts after I watch them.

:wub:

The Rockers vs. Buddy Rose/Doug Somers - AWA 9/2/86
Now that's some real tag team wrestling. Nasty heels, spunky faces, and a super-hot crowd that hates/loves them respectively. A crazy, bloody brawl. Very good. If only it had a finish.

The Rockers vs. Buddy Rose/Doug Somers - AWA 12/25/86
Liked this, though not as much as the previous. Rockers get their revenge in another bloody brawl. Coolest moment - an OLD LADY in the crowd flipping off Rose/Somers. Now that's making the fans care about your work.

The Rockers vs. The Intruder/Iron Mike Sharpe - WWF 6/18/88
The Rockers' WWF debut. A three minute squash, which is exactly what it should be. The Rockers outsmart and outwrestle them at every turn. They get to show off their offense and the crowd eats it up. Good for what it is.

The Rockers vs. Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - MSG 1/23/89
Now we're talking! This one's great. The hot face opening lasts for about eight minutes and The Rockers bring a ton of neat spots to own Arn & Tully. Heels try various double-team moves and have them reversed by The Rockers. Real fun segment. Arn & Tully bail repeatedly to think of a way to gain control, which they finally do in a sneaky way. Shawn and his many teased comebacks as face-in-peril are GREAT. Excellent build to the hot tag. Love this.

The Rockers vs. Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - SNME 3/11/89
This was hot, and I mean HOT. Real good face-in-peril tag action, similar to 1/89, but I think I prefer the first. It wasn't as heated, but it was longer and the spots were a bit more creative. Still this is very good. These guys all have the tag formula nailed and I love it.

The Rockers vs. Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - WWF 3/18/89
This had a nice start, with The Rockers working holds - headlocks, wristlocks, armbars - simple work but done well and it gets the point across. Then it's clipped and it returns with Shawn in peril. Bah, I hate it when they clip the transition! The rest is solid leading to a good hot tag, then a poor finish. Good but the clipping and bad finish make it a lesser match than the previous two.

The Rockers/Tito Santana vs. Rougeau Brothers/Rick Martel - Summerslam 1989
This was fun. Work is basic but they bring the drama and heat. Martel is hilarious here - cocky as all hell when he's beating down Santana and instantly turns coward when the hot tag is made. Crowd eats it up.

The Rockers vs. Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - SNME 11/25/89
More greatness from these teams. Some will have a problem with doing three falls in ten minutes, but at the pace they were working I can't say it bothers me. Starts with Tully and Jannetty trading holds before the speed up for the finish. Second fall is crazy. Ton of good spots crammed into a small period and it drives the crowd nuts. Shawn tries to repeat a move and it backfires leading to a fall. Third is mostly Shawn in peril before they take it home in a real hot segment. This was a hell of a feud.

The Rockers vs. The Hart Foundation - MSG 11/25/89
Loved this. It's a very simple match, but it had me marking out for things like an uppercut countered into a backslide and a bodyslam into a small package, so I have to say they succeeded. Start is mostly a face/face technical match. Neidhart did some nice power/speed work with The Rockers early. Of course the Harts go heel and take over. Bret is real good during the heel beatdown. Very intense (look at those uppercuts and standing headbutts). After the hot tag there's a good, long nearfall section that I was digging the hell out of. This did have a few problems - it's a MSG match, so they aren't going all-out as they would on national TV. There are some slow spots (ie Neidhart's bearhug and facelock). The heat is average at best until the nearfall section. And it ends in a time limit draw. I don't know if everyone would love this, but I certainly did. I need to see their SNME match again.

The Rockers vs. Powers of Pain - MSG 1/15/90
This is an interesting match because it tells a simple story - The Rockers are faster and the Powers of Pain are stronger. They stick to these themes and that's all you need to know. The Powers aren't good wrestlers but they manage to hold up their end by bringing a decent amount of power moves, and the match is short enough to not expose them. Probably ***-ish at best but worth a look for the solid story.

The Rockers vs. The Hart Foundation - Saturday Night's Main Event 4/28/90
I actually have to say this was a bit of a disappointment. It's exciting and real hot, but it was too short and obviously doesn't have a finish. Very good while it lasts. If I could combine the heat in this with the work they did in 11/89 we'd have a great one.

The more I watch the more apparent it is that Shawn Michaels was an amazing babyface tag team wrestler. He knew the formula like the back of his hand, he knew how to bring unique and creative spots for the hot opening, he excelled at building sympathy, and he was superb at teasing comebacks/hope spots before the hot tag. Really impressive work. Some might not dig these as much as I, because they are basic matches and somewhat dated, but I think they're all worth a look.