So I've been downloading a bunch of shows. My most recent download was February 1997 for Nitro. Here's the first show I'll be watching:

Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mendoza, Jr.
Glacier vs. Billy Kidman
Ice Train vs. La Parka
Harlem Heat vs. Steiner Brothers
Dean Malenko vs. Mike Enos
DDP vs. Renegade
Super Calo vs. Alex Wright
Chris Benoit vs. Konan
Jeff Jarrett vs. Steve McMichael

Looking through these old shows really does make me sad though. Nitro used to kick so much ass. Dean Maleno, Ultimo Dragon, Psicosis, Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio Jr. fighting on a weekly basis. How I miss it.

I've been going through the same thing watching Monday Night Wars on WWE 24/7.

I'm also interested in seeing how well the DDP/Savage feud aged. I remember really liking that at the time it was going on. Especially when DDP dressed up like La Parka in a match against Savage.

I also have to say from what I've seen. Glacier was a much better worker than he gets the credit for.

The hate comes from...


1. The insane amount of hype, for...

2. Nothing. He had ZERO feuds worth a damn (a.k.a for titles).

His feud with Mortis and Wrath were quite good though.

But what was the point of it? A Cheesy Mortal Kombat rip-off?

It really didn't make much sense, even if the matches were good (the one I saw at uncensored '97 was).

TNT was producing a "Mortal Kombat" TV show to air after Nitro. It finally aired in 1997/1998, but they were hoping Glacier would be a crossover character of sorts.

When Glacier debutted, there were actually rumors that he would take Sting's place in the 1996 Fall Brawl War Games against the nWo.

He seemed to disapper from about October 1996 until March 1997. When he came back, it seemed like he was off in his own little world, with James Vandenburg, Mortis, Wrath and Ernest Miller. The cruiserweights always seemed to be in their own little world, but at least you got some crossover with Syxx, Dean Malenko, Jericho and Mysterio.

The fact that when he debuted he didn't do any crazy Mortal Combat type moves didn't help.

He did a couple...like a somersault after a legwhip. Stuff like that.

The deal was after all that buildup, he just came off as a regular wrestler. Great buildup, great entrance, possible competent worker, but when you've had that kind of buildup you have to be able to produce when the match starts.

I don't have every match on instant recall, but he seemed to be mis-matched with opponents. I mean, his first match was against BIG BUBBA.

It's easy to second-guess things now, but put him in there with Malenko, Ultimo or the Cruisers of the time and it might've turned out differently.

I can't believe anyone here would say that Glacier was good. WTF?

Also, I would agree that the DDP/Macho Man stuff has aged well. I'd even say that DDP/Savage was one of the best feuds that the WCW ever put on during that time.

I didn't say he was good. I said he was a much better worker than he gets credit for. Considering people treat him like he was awful just saying that he was an average worker puts him in that category.

What... did you expect him to rip somebody's organs out or something?

That would've been awesome!


"GET OVER HERE!"

I was hoping.

Sub-Zero didn't do "Come over here!..."

Sorry, being character specific, considering the Glacier look, name, and snow storms.

Alright, steering this thread away from Glacier related discussion,

here's a list of everyone in WCW I feel WCW management misused; Discuss....

Curt Hennig
Wrath (before Nash killed his heat)
Chris Jericho
Chris Benoit
Chris Kanyon
Raven
Fit Finlay
William Regal
Alex Wright
Ultimate Warrior
Jeff Jarrett

Thoughts?

Completely disagree. He was used to the best of his abilities during his entire run. He got tons of screen time and was a very solid B level heel behind the nWo. Very good feuds with Benoit, Saturn and DDP during this time frame. He wasn't a world title calibur kind of guy at the time and I think went as high as was possible for him.

Towards the end yes. But they did take a nobody and make him a big enough star that there was a huge bidding war over him before he jumped to the WWE. Had they not given him that huge run in 98 with tons of mic time the WWE probably wouldn't have been as hot to pick him up. The WWE also misused him just as bad IMO.

Yes and no. I don't know if I would've given him more than the tag titles or the television title. I'm willing to say he had short spurts of being used greatly with long lengths of being used poorly.

I blame injuries more than management. His first six months in the company were great and he was used very well. Then he was used very well in his tag team with Barry Windham. Otherwise he was hurt.

Wasn't over enough to justify more than he got.

In the span of 8 months he won the United States title a couple of times, the tag titles a couple of times and even pulled in a run with the television title. Benoit even in 97 was getting a better good push and he was given more chances to succeed than he is at times in the WWE. He was also allowed to be more of a cold blooded killer there than in the WWE.

Ehh.... Regal shares a lot of the blame with his drug habit.

As Berlyn yes they messed up a great gimmick. Before that he was more or less on the card where I would've had him. Plus his tag team with Disco Inferno and Tokyo Magnum was good comedy.

I'll agree with this one. They were on to something when they were pushing him huge in 1998. They should've stuck to that and built to undefeated Goldberg vs. Wrath. It seems they depushed him right as he was really starting to gain some momentum. Ah, the joys of Kevin Nash with the book.

I think they used him pretty well. Even during the peak of the nWo in 1997 he was still getting a lot of screen time and a well built feud with Steve McMichael. Then he essentially carried the company on his back along with Sid during the early parts of 2000.

I think bringing him in was just a mistake in general. After Hogan beat him there was really nothing to do with him. Though I thought the approach of him almost being a ghost that was haunting Hogan was at least kind of interesting.


I think there were some far worse cases. Jim Neidhart and the British Bulldog for starters. A lot more could've been done with that tag team.

Curt Hennig - They could've used Curt better. He seemed to get over with whatever gimmick they gave him, and was a very good worker. I would have liked to see him in a main event run, just to see what he could do.

Wrath - Yes. Total fumble. They were doing great with him, and then just cut it short. Kronic was getting over huge too, before WCW went under.

Chris Jericho - I think Jericho was used better in WCW than WWE. He was consistantly the most entertaining guy on the show in WCW.

Chris Benoit - Not sure. While WWE certainly made him into a bigger star, WCW gave him a great run in the Horsemen, had significant feuds (Booker T) and gave him the world title before he jumped ship. Had he not been so disgruntled, I'm not sure WCW wouldn't have pushed him better.

Chris Kanyon - He could've been used better. Of course, WWE mistreated WAY more than WCW did. But yes, I thought he deserved a bigger role in the later days of WCW.

Raven - Gotta go with Mad Dog on this one. No one got more mic time than Raven.

Fit Finlay - Now that the newness has worn off, I don't see where WWE is using him any differently than WCW. His strengths make him a mid-carder, and he is great for building up other talent, but that's about it.

William Regal - Maybe, but I think he was battling the "demons" too much at that time.

Alex Wright - Total missed opportunity with Berlyn. That character could've really gone somewhere. However, the Das WUnderkind character was never gonna get over in the US.

Ultimate Warrior - Agree with Mad Dog. Just not a good idea to bring the cook in. They did a good job of building the angle, but then there was just no where to go. That wasn't really WCW's fault.

Jeff Jarrett - WCW used JJ better than anyone else has. He did a good job in WCW, but just isn't the type of guy that's gonna sell tons of PPV's.

Curt Hennig - I could agree and disagree with this one. On one hand, he was a US champion and a part of the nWo. His feud with Flair was decent and they had him go heel on Flair which was awesome stuff. It would have been nice to see him in there working with some of the middle card guys that could go though. But for the time and where he was in his careet I don't have a problem with it. He was in the Rap is Crap crew though, which was funny and all but he just shouldn't have been in it.


Wrath - Wrath was used well I think too. I would say that the gimmick that he had when he was with Mortis was terrible but it did keep him around. He wasn't really taken seriously on the roster until Kronic was started and honestly he was the better part of that team. I could easily see though how someone would say he's underutilized though.

Chris Jericho - Jericho should have been pushed to the main event eventually in WCW, but otherwise they used him perfectly. He was better (gimmick and personality wise) in WCW easily and was one hell of a heel in WCW.

Chris Benoit - I would agree 100% here. They were always steps behind with Benoit. It took them 4 years to realize he was ready for the main event and when they finally give him the title, he gets stripped of it. He's the perfect example of shitty usage in WCW.

Chris Kanyon - Meh, Kanyon did cool moves but I never thought he should have been pushed in WCW more. He was what he was.

Raven - Well if you think he was misused, then the only person he can blame is himself. He was the only other guy in WCW besides Hogan that did his own stuff. For the record, I thought he was fucking awesome in WCW.

Fit Finlay - He was definately misused. He was hardly there and when he proved he was great in that street fight that him and Regal had on Nitro they did nothing with it. It's a shame really.

William Regal - I would say Regal became misused around the time he was having drug issues in 96 or so. Before that they used him perfectly. After that he was fucked over and shitcanned for stiffing Goldberg. So what can you do?

Alex Wright - I would say that he showed potential and should have been used more around the time he debuted, but for the most part they were doing stuff with him on a consistant basis. He got lost in the shuffle though and didn't ever get back to where he was. The Berlyn gimmick basically killed his career. So I would probably agree that he was misused.

Ultimate Warrior - He was misused by bringing him in, in the first place. Fuck him.

Jeff Jarrett - I thought they used Jarrett to his full potential and more. Actually I'm amazed that they got what they did outta JJ. He's never been good enough to work on top, and they managed to pull that illusion off. Maybe he was good during that time because his buddy Russo was booking him?

I think Mad Dog has it correct. Hennig's first six months were great. He came in as a top-level guy, but after he jobbed the US Title to DDP (think it was Starrcade 1997), it was all downhill.

Jarrett was used well, too. He came in and had a program with the Giant and the Four Horsemen, right out of the gate. When he came back in 1999, within a week or two he was in the World Title picture.

I'd add Public Enemy to the mis-used list as well. I babbled about it recently in the 24/7 thread, but they were getting over in 1996. WCW threw them on the same level as the Road Warriors, Steiners and Harlem Heat. Their push and any appeal went poof when they had a 10 day tag title reign and got fed back to Harlem Heat in fall 1996. After that, they did nothing of note... except putting over High Voltage.

Plus, at that time, I felt that they were actually better workers than Harlem Heat. Yes, Booker T broke out and became one of the company's top guys in late 1997... but Harlem Heat as a team was mostly punchy/kicky.

The problem that I always had with PE in WCW was the fact that there were goofy as shit, and not at all threatening. The thing with them in ECW was that they were goofy, but when push came to shove, they'd beat your ass. BAD. Hell, Rocco Rock was the tag team version of Sabu at that point as I'd seen him and Sabu try a shitload of table spots before ANYONE else ever did.

So yea, I would agree. WCW dropped the ball here with them.

I think they matched up bad with the tag team division. Now had the Nasty Boys hung around things would've gone better but you just couldn't believe they could beat the Steiners or Harlem Heat in a fight. I honestly think the Faces of Fear were misused more. They should've had at least one title run.

What exactly WAS Jarrett's angle with the Horsemen? I remember watching it, with Flair kind of hand-picking Jarrett as the new horsemen, but the other horsemen all being VERY against it. Looking back, I don't remember if I had that right or not. I remember enjoying it, but what exactly was going on. Jarrett was a stud, and who the hell are Benoit, Arn, and Mongo to question Ric fucking Flair anyway?

By the way MD, I totally agree that the Faces of Fear deserved a title run. The reason why not? That was the time where The Outsiders had the tag titles without defending them for ungodly amounts of time. Still I would agree that the FOF were misused.

Also Jaime I think you had the JJ angle with the Horsemen right.

I think the reasons why the others had to question Flair about was the fact that they weren't looking out for themselves, they were looking out for the Horsemen. I think it was something like, hey Flair you trust us to defend you when you need it, so listen to what we say type shit.

That's the one thing that I always loved about The Horsemen. It was never who was the best, or who was the most over. It was ALWAYS about the group. That made them such badass heels as people would occasionally get over on Flair, Arn, Tully etc. but NEVER over the group. They would eventually catch you in the wrong situation.

I got the Outsiders and the nWo in general not defending titles but it was kind of frustrating at the time. I mean they had a great tag team division at the time.

They sure did. I also remember around that time that people on the net were reporting that Bischoff wanted to kill off the tag division completely. Which was retarded as retarded gets.

Added to the Jarrett thing was the fact that he was a recent arrival from "up North". The Horsemen were cautious at accepting him for that reason. They weren't sure if he was WCW or nWo and didn't want to be made fools of, again.

Plus, you never trust a guy wearing a gay white striped vest thingie.

How I forgot that, I'll never know.

Good point on the NWO v WCW bit. I think that was the primal focus of the whole thing, but unfortunately Jarrett kind of fell by the wayside. With that many names, it is bound to happen.

Of course, that led to his awesome arrival and run in WWF, which in turn led to his return to the WCW, which was fucking awesome as well.

To me, Jarrett is definitely the most underrated guy of the Attitude Era.

I long for the days of Jarrett saying Slapnuts. Why'd he keep the shitty finisher but lose the awesome insult?

He did it for awhile in TNA but slowly moved away from having a catchphrase as his title hunt wore on during the early days.

Remember when TNA tried making Jarrett into their version of Hulk Hogan? My God, that was awful. And who's idea was it to turn a natural heel like him, face?

Back on topic of WCW... my God, they screwed up the Sting/nWo stuff big time.

He actually was a draw during his face run with the belt. All of his title defenses did better buyrates than the normal shows and his feud with Raven did draw well for the company. Raven just screwed that up by refusing to sign a contract to get the belt. Then when offered a contract like 5 months later he gladly signed it.

Anyways we're steering this off topic with that. Too bad Raven bailed on WCW. I found the Dead Pool stable to be cool for their brief appearances. I actually ripped them off when I was booking an e-fed around the same time.

Dead Pool? I'm totally not remembering that.

Raven, ICP, and Vampiro?

I remember ICP and Vampiro and I think Muta in something called the Dark Carnival.