Since this has become a big arguement... AGAIN, on TSM, I thought I would ask it here since I'm a little peaved and have a cold, so I'm just running on fumes.

First, I'm going to try and debate this rationally, and try not to be bias in either way of hatred or liking, since that would obviously make my points "bias".

As a mark, I cheer for Rob Van Dam, but when it comes to being a smart fan, I can't stand him, so really, I'm in the middle of the road here.

Reasons Why RVD Shouldn't Be a Main Eventer:

1. His entire offense needs to be changed if he's a main eventer for WWE. When was the last time you've seen a World Champion do carthwheels, senseless flipping around, and all around shotty moves? The guy can hardly throw a punch without it looking like shit (who taught him to punch, Lita?).

2. His promo work needs a LOT (emphasis on that) of help. I can't think of a single promo he's had in WWE that didn't scream "suck". When he tries to be funny, he just comes off as annoying, and the stoner image he carries with him everywhere doesn't help.

3. He's Lazy. Never before have I seen a WWE wrestler so obviously go from a guy who works hard to give the crowd an entertaining show to someone half-assing to the point you cannot believe... within 2 shows! If he's jobbing, he's lazy. Why should someone be pushed when they can't do their job without being uptight about it? Even when Triple H jobs he does it professionally.

4. He's a nightmare when it comes to promoting for interviews on talk shows and interviews outside of the wrestling TV World. The guy openly bashes the company at every chance he gets, and WWE would be dumb enough to put the title on him and let him do that some more? Plus he doesn't scream "World Champion" judging by his appearence. Imagine THIS guy walking around a Republican Convention as World Champion. People would riot.

5. Unsafe wrestler. He's toned it down quite a bit over the last while, but stick him in a match where hardcore rules are allowed (and we get a lot of them for World Titles), and he'll bust everyone open. From the Fall of 2001, I can't name a single person he didn't split open hardway with his Van Daminator. At Survivor Series 2002, he nearly kills Hunter with a botched Frog Splash by landing on his throat. A few weeks ago, while doing a retard "leg drop" move called the 4:20, breaks Kenzo Suzuki's nose.

Quite obviously, RVD's cons far outweight his pros, which is being over. I put thought into my opinions here (for once) and hope for intelligence discussion can come from this instead of useless bickering.

It's ironic, because what makes him a miserable worker gets him over.

Question: Would you trust a man like that to be your World Champion? I think i've made a few good points (although I may have been a little incoherrent because of a stupid fever) and I honestly wouldn't let RVD near it.

Nope. Maybe if it was ECW, but not a company like WWE or TNA.

I would have in late 2001/early 2002. Seriously, he was getting the hugest reactions at the time, and that's when guys like Rock and Austin were on the roster. I don't care that he's "unsafe." If he was THAT unsafe, he wouldn't have a job. I know you're supposed to be protected a good amount by your opponent, but if you're doing a spot that involves a steel chair (ie Van Daminator) you have to realize there's a chance you're gonna be busted open. Simple as that. Now, I know he was crapped on cause he made people bleed in other ways, and that's valid, but still, he wasn't fired over it, so it obviously wasn't as big a deal as some made it seem.

Nowadays, he just doesn't have the fire he once did, for whatever reason. Unless he changes his tune, I wouldn't give him even a main event program.

Wrestlers could refuse to work with someone they feel is unsafe, especially when it's someone like the world champion. So yes, being unsafe DOES matter in WWE.

Even though his push was derailed, I never saw any guys "refuse" to work with him. Even when he was pushed down the card, he had the occasional match with top guys, like HBK or Angle or Taker. I'm sure it matters somewhat to the guys he worked with, but managment obviously didn't care all that much. To me, that whole situation seemed like Kurt Angle getting pissed (and fine, he got busted open, whatever) and saying some shit in that pissed off-vein. And then, after that, everytime someone bled in a RVD match, the net had a bitch fit.

I'm not saying your point isn't valid, because there did seem to be a lot of hardway blades in his matches, and the whole HHH Elimination Chamber thing. I'm just saying that I don't think that was/is as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

It isn't when it comes to management. It's probably my weakest point, but it was on my mind that he's pretty stiff and some wrestlers don't feel safe with someone like that.

As part of my edited out argument, look at the Austin/Owen situtation. One freak accident and Austin refused to work with Owen again after their 1997 program due to being unsafe, which put Owen in limbo, with meaningless midcard feuds to follow.

Even though the Owen/Austin thing certainly seemed like a one-time botch, Austin has more grounds to complain, methinks. There's a difference between a minor forhead or mouth laceration and a broken neck.

But yea, you're right about what happened to Owen. But Owen, God rest his soul, was never as over as RVD was from 01-02. That's truely a shame, because I love Owen and he smokes RVD in the ring, but I sincerely think that's true. And guys are much more likely to "refuse to work with someone" if they aren't insanely over (and they broke their neck).

I still don't think RVD was at fault for the times Angle got busted open. As I recall Angle was getting opened up the same way in a lot of matches around the same time so I always thought it was something he was doing.

No, and I'll tell you why. His attitude sucks. I remember seeing an interview with him last year, they were talking about how he has had the I-C title so many times. RVD said he didn't care about the I-C title because he has had it before. To me, that was disrespecting a great title with great history surrounding it, and Rob spit on the belt and every other wrestler that held that title. There are tons of guys on both brands that would do anything to have the #2 title in wrestling today. To me, RVD is an ingrate. Also, can you imagine him as WWE champion? He's not marketable at all. What would his shirts say? "Cool" on the front and "dude" on the back? Please.... :rolleyes: the guy is as marketable as a bowling shoe.

Reasons Why RVD Shouldn't Be a Main Eventer:

Well, your WAY off here. If he was to be a main eventer.....he'd have to either continue his offense or even take it further and let him loose. Why? Because that is the thing that has gotten him over since day one. Now, if you are thinking well fine then....just make him a heel. That wouldn't work either because if he was a heel and his offense is toned down then nobody would take him seriously as a challenger. If they were to make him main event, he should have done it when Eddie was champion as he is good enough to carry RVD and make him look acceptable as a challenger.

Well, he annoys you..........but not everyone else. I can say that he isn't the greatest promo guy for sure....by that I mean he's no Austin, Hogan, Flair, or Rock. But that doesn't mean that he couldn't do one for his personality that if the WWE could do on a consistant basis it wouldn't be so bad. At least that way you would KNOW his personality, because now it's kinda week by week with it.

Lazy? I disagree. Unmotivated is more like it. It's not the fact that he's lazy, it's the fact that they don't like the way he works and they refuse to push him past a certain point. Then he does interviews and bashes the company. So that makes it certain he won't be pushed, thus he doesn't work as hard as he could. Also, I don't see RVD working as poorly as you claim, at least not ALL of the time.

Unsafe? Well, I'll admit that he isn't the safest guy out there. RVD, has explained before that if you can't take it.....you shouldn't be wrestling. There is a certain amount of truth to that and I can see what he means. Unfortunately, he doesn't realize that you are NEVER suppost to hurt another competitor in a match no matter what. The only time it's acceptable to potato someone in the ring, is if both guys agree to it beforehand. THAT IS IT. So I would agree with you here for the most part.

I really hope you don't take my post as bickering as I feel I rebutted all of your statements respectfully. Also, I just think it may be a matter of us just disagreeing and that is fine. RVD IS a valuable part of the roster though regardless of people realize it or not. He is a guy that actually isn't hurt by being jobbed. He stays over regardless........and THAT is always a good thing.

What's mine say?

COOL! What does Mine say?

DUDE!!! What does mine say?

COOL!!!!!! What doess mine say???

I agree with most of your comments, from a different POV. But I'll just like to point out the last thing you said...

"He is a guy that actually isn't hurt by being jobbed. He stays over regardless........and THAT is always a good thing."

This reminds me of someone on RAW that I really like... Kane. He's much more suitable for a WWE main event (big tall guy with lots of brawling in matches), and still hasn't gotten jack shit in terms of a real push.

On one hand, it's probably wrong being a "yes man" by doing whatever the company wants you to do (Kane). On the other, it might be worse to be someone who complains constantly about his push and shoots down the WWE's #2 title (RVD).

Anyway, back to the comment. I think someone who isn't hurt by being jobbed out is worse off, because the creative team knows this, and don't have to worry about them falling down the card because of the lack of fan response. It basically sets up someone for bad angles (don't get me started here), and I'm surprised they really haven't done anything stupid with RVD yet.

Right now? No way. He's been made to look weak for the last what, two years? However, he is so over, it wouldn't take much to get him in a place where people would really care about him again. I like the fact that he has a different moveset than other main-eventers, and seems like most of the crowd does too. I think if pushed properly, he could actually draw, which noone is doing right now.

Well, this is my fault. I agree with what you said 100%, and that is from a fan POV. I was talking in the sense of booking or of the company in general.....they'd love a guy that is never hurt by jobbing, it makes THEIR job easier.