Title: WON notes
Description: stolen, of course
Description: stolen, of course
Big F'N Swigg - July 24, 2006 11:26 PM (GMT)
Victory Road:
Thumbs up: 50 (54.9%)
Thumbs down: 27 (29.7%)
Thumbs in the middle: 14 (15.4%)
Dave called VR a mediocre PPV “from a promotion that can’t gain position in the crowd PPV marketplace producing anything less than very good to excellent”.
Says TNA has changed from a promotion that made its name by consistently putting on the best PPV matches anywhere to being more personality and storyline based, with almost no booking done based on whether the match produced will be anything above average. Dave says that generally the storyline and personality stuff is what draws, but doing that makes the promotion seem like WWE with lesser stars and there are three WWE brands. Dave says TNA has lost their niche.
Dave said that apart from the LAX tag match unexpectedly stealing the show, there was nothing memorable about it. Said the crowd was once again burned out from having to wait so long in the sun to get in. A lot of the regular fans didn’t go because they used to get a special line and the best seats, but that got taken away, so most of the people are park guests. One person there said that the lines to get in were the shortest for any PPV in a long time.
In regard to the main event and Sting’s big comeback, he said the lack of reaction to his return and his big win was depressing. He called Joe the crowd favorite and that they appeared to see Sting winning as “Joe not winning”. Dave points out that Sting’s deal has not got long to go, and with them building to Sting vs. Jarrett all year then the time to go to it is now. Says Joe has more time and the more they build to his title run the more it will mean. Said there was no real storyline for Joe, and said he came across as an afterthought, when the fans reacted to him as the biggest star on the show. Says that after the lengthy build up, now they are hitting the singles match program with Sting and Jarrett, that there doesn’t appear to be any interest in it.
The feedback to the Observer, which has been very consistently matched how TNA’s PPV’s have wound up drawing, was down 23% on the very low levels it had already reached as of late, and is less than half the level it was at when Sting first arrived. Dave thinks a lot of it is down to TNA no longer ending PPV’s with a MOTY-level bout, which was their lone calling card in getting people to pay for a PPV in an already crowded market. Dave thinks a lot of it is also down to the amount of competition, and that competition among viewers with similar interests for more high profile seemingly more important events. Dave says he can’t think of a single category where a TNA PPV delivers better than anything a bigger promotion does.
Dave was also bothered to a degree about the lack of instant replays. He said there a lot of high risk moves on the PPV, and showing them again not only gets the spots over but the wrestlers over too, and with the lack of replays, he doesn’t know if anybody got over with them.
The PPV drew the usual full house of 900 fans.
Right now, Hard Justice will see: Sting vs. Jarrett for the NWA Title most likely with Christian and Scott Steiner in their respective corners, Styles and Daniels vs. Homicide and Hernandez for the tag titles, Joe vs. Rhino vs. Monty Brown, Sirelda vs. Gail Kim and Kevin Nash vs. Chris Sabin, but Dave says that may be changed to a tag match involving Jerry Lynn because Sabin ‘shockingly’ hasn’t gotten over a bit in this angle, which was meant to be for him). There might also be something with the James Gang as faces against AMW and Sen Shi against Dutt or Lethal and possible The Naturals against Shelly and Devine.
Naturals vs. Skipper and Diamond: *. Called Shane Douglas’s insulting of Flair bad timing with Flair having just popped a rating and tearing the house down five nights before.
Rhino vs. Monty Brown: *1/4. Says it was clear they were going to start a win streak for Brown so they likely changed the finish from him going over to a DDQ as Rhino got himself over with fans and management with his anti-ECW promo’s, and this was not the time to beat him.
Homicide and Hernandez vs. Sonjay Dutt and Ron Killings: ***1/2. Said instead of dropping Dutt down Hernandez “just heaved him halfway to Tampa”.
Said the segment with Team Canada was good but that it went too long. Also said that Young was acting a lot like Eugene and “I already saw Eugene and how nuts everyone was for him and how well that played out”.
Sen Shi vs. Frankie Kazarian: **1/2. Incognito was meant to be in the match but TNA couldn’t contact him for some reason. Called the match cold because Kazarian did nothing to be the babyface and didn’t do much in the comeback.
Raven vs. Zbyszko: DUD. Said Larry has gained 30lbs since Morphoplex went out of business but luckily his stall doesn’t need good cardio.
On the Nash promo, Dave said the only memorable thing was Nash using a line from Seinfeld 14 years ago. Dave also said Nash was mocking Hogan’s promo’s to try and be cool. “As if we don’t get enough DX for one week with 40-year-olds trying to act like high schoolers that TNA copies it with someone closing in on 50. Well, at least Nash looks younger than his age, which can’t be said for the other two.
Chris Sabin and Jay Lethal vs. Kevin Nash and Alex Shelley: *1/2. “Nash was either trying to sell and doing it in a most unbelievable fashion or was trying to sell in a most unbelievable fashion.” Said the idea of the program was to get Sabin over as an X-Division star, but to no shock at all he’s just gotten buried and for all the reason everybody knew about going in.
James Gang and Abyss vs. Team 3D and Brother Runt: **3/4. Penzer got ‘reamed out’ for announcing Abyss at 248.
Styles and Daniels and Sirelda vs. AMW and Gail Kim: **3/4. Said the match wasn’t bad but not as good as it’s been the last few months. Said the first half was mostly comedy and that the momentum was killed whenever Sirelda was in. Dave called the second half of the match very good.
Sting vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christian vs. Scott Steiner: **1/4. Said the problem with the match was Steiner being the focal point after Sting got taken out and that he was struggling very badly, and the most noticeable since joining. Said the crowd wasn’t into the match at all. Said Joe and Christian were both good.
Other News:
James Mitchell is under contract until May and says he’s very happy in TNA. He said there was no contact between him and WWE.
There is heat amongst the wrestlers over Andy Douglas getting out of cutting his hair. The story is that Bob Ryder, who has almost no respect anymore, convinced Jeff Jarrett that the hair cut wasn’t needed. The booking committee wanted to give them a new push with a new look. They had minor haircuts as a concession but they look almost the same as before. (From me: Yes, the booking committee decided what they wanted happening but Jeff decided to change it. It might have been something minor, but if Jeff is willing to step in on something like a haircut, just think what he’ll be like when the committee make the call to have Jarrett put over Joe for the title)
Some of those at TV looking for work were Brian Lee, Sean Waltman and Lance Hoyt.
Joe was unhappy at the tapings. He had a large welt under his eye from a potato shot from Steiner. He was arguing with D’Amore about something in front of the wrestlers, D’Amore was on at Joe for something else and Joe was yelling back. Eventually, they calmed things down and D’Amore apologized.
Monty Brown and Sen Shi have not signed new deals, but with Brown it might not even be considered a big issue. With Sen Shi, there was something in the deal he did not agree to. He was also unhappy at TV. He wasn’t happy about his PPV match not getting advertised and that he apparently only found about the match on the internet. He was also unhappy about, not only just working an Xplosion match at the TV taping, but also having to put over Sonjay Dutt.
A rep from ESPN India was at the taping interviewing wrestlers for the station. He said ratings for TNA on the station are huge, and talked about TNA maybe touring there.
Vignettes start soon for the Bobby Roode singles push. The angle will be that all the top managers are after him.
Team 3D won’t be used for a while as their contract is running low on dates.
The story behind the James Gang taking Eric Young under their wing is that they want the James Gang as faces and because they are the highest paid they need them over. In actuality, apparently, the hope is that it’s Young who gives them a rub from being so over himself.
Thumbs up: 50 (54.9%)
Thumbs down: 27 (29.7%)
Thumbs in the middle: 14 (15.4%)
Dave called VR a mediocre PPV “from a promotion that can’t gain position in the crowd PPV marketplace producing anything less than very good to excellent”.
Says TNA has changed from a promotion that made its name by consistently putting on the best PPV matches anywhere to being more personality and storyline based, with almost no booking done based on whether the match produced will be anything above average. Dave says that generally the storyline and personality stuff is what draws, but doing that makes the promotion seem like WWE with lesser stars and there are three WWE brands. Dave says TNA has lost their niche.
Dave said that apart from the LAX tag match unexpectedly stealing the show, there was nothing memorable about it. Said the crowd was once again burned out from having to wait so long in the sun to get in. A lot of the regular fans didn’t go because they used to get a special line and the best seats, but that got taken away, so most of the people are park guests. One person there said that the lines to get in were the shortest for any PPV in a long time.
In regard to the main event and Sting’s big comeback, he said the lack of reaction to his return and his big win was depressing. He called Joe the crowd favorite and that they appeared to see Sting winning as “Joe not winning”. Dave points out that Sting’s deal has not got long to go, and with them building to Sting vs. Jarrett all year then the time to go to it is now. Says Joe has more time and the more they build to his title run the more it will mean. Said there was no real storyline for Joe, and said he came across as an afterthought, when the fans reacted to him as the biggest star on the show. Says that after the lengthy build up, now they are hitting the singles match program with Sting and Jarrett, that there doesn’t appear to be any interest in it.
The feedback to the Observer, which has been very consistently matched how TNA’s PPV’s have wound up drawing, was down 23% on the very low levels it had already reached as of late, and is less than half the level it was at when Sting first arrived. Dave thinks a lot of it is down to TNA no longer ending PPV’s with a MOTY-level bout, which was their lone calling card in getting people to pay for a PPV in an already crowded market. Dave thinks a lot of it is also down to the amount of competition, and that competition among viewers with similar interests for more high profile seemingly more important events. Dave says he can’t think of a single category where a TNA PPV delivers better than anything a bigger promotion does.
Dave was also bothered to a degree about the lack of instant replays. He said there a lot of high risk moves on the PPV, and showing them again not only gets the spots over but the wrestlers over too, and with the lack of replays, he doesn’t know if anybody got over with them.
The PPV drew the usual full house of 900 fans.
Right now, Hard Justice will see: Sting vs. Jarrett for the NWA Title most likely with Christian and Scott Steiner in their respective corners, Styles and Daniels vs. Homicide and Hernandez for the tag titles, Joe vs. Rhino vs. Monty Brown, Sirelda vs. Gail Kim and Kevin Nash vs. Chris Sabin, but Dave says that may be changed to a tag match involving Jerry Lynn because Sabin ‘shockingly’ hasn’t gotten over a bit in this angle, which was meant to be for him). There might also be something with the James Gang as faces against AMW and Sen Shi against Dutt or Lethal and possible The Naturals against Shelly and Devine.
Naturals vs. Skipper and Diamond: *. Called Shane Douglas’s insulting of Flair bad timing with Flair having just popped a rating and tearing the house down five nights before.
Rhino vs. Monty Brown: *1/4. Says it was clear they were going to start a win streak for Brown so they likely changed the finish from him going over to a DDQ as Rhino got himself over with fans and management with his anti-ECW promo’s, and this was not the time to beat him.
Homicide and Hernandez vs. Sonjay Dutt and Ron Killings: ***1/2. Said instead of dropping Dutt down Hernandez “just heaved him halfway to Tampa”.
Said the segment with Team Canada was good but that it went too long. Also said that Young was acting a lot like Eugene and “I already saw Eugene and how nuts everyone was for him and how well that played out”.
Sen Shi vs. Frankie Kazarian: **1/2. Incognito was meant to be in the match but TNA couldn’t contact him for some reason. Called the match cold because Kazarian did nothing to be the babyface and didn’t do much in the comeback.
Raven vs. Zbyszko: DUD. Said Larry has gained 30lbs since Morphoplex went out of business but luckily his stall doesn’t need good cardio.
On the Nash promo, Dave said the only memorable thing was Nash using a line from Seinfeld 14 years ago. Dave also said Nash was mocking Hogan’s promo’s to try and be cool. “As if we don’t get enough DX for one week with 40-year-olds trying to act like high schoolers that TNA copies it with someone closing in on 50. Well, at least Nash looks younger than his age, which can’t be said for the other two.
Chris Sabin and Jay Lethal vs. Kevin Nash and Alex Shelley: *1/2. “Nash was either trying to sell and doing it in a most unbelievable fashion or was trying to sell in a most unbelievable fashion.” Said the idea of the program was to get Sabin over as an X-Division star, but to no shock at all he’s just gotten buried and for all the reason everybody knew about going in.
James Gang and Abyss vs. Team 3D and Brother Runt: **3/4. Penzer got ‘reamed out’ for announcing Abyss at 248.
Styles and Daniels and Sirelda vs. AMW and Gail Kim: **3/4. Said the match wasn’t bad but not as good as it’s been the last few months. Said the first half was mostly comedy and that the momentum was killed whenever Sirelda was in. Dave called the second half of the match very good.
Sting vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christian vs. Scott Steiner: **1/4. Said the problem with the match was Steiner being the focal point after Sting got taken out and that he was struggling very badly, and the most noticeable since joining. Said the crowd wasn’t into the match at all. Said Joe and Christian were both good.
Other News:
James Mitchell is under contract until May and says he’s very happy in TNA. He said there was no contact between him and WWE.
There is heat amongst the wrestlers over Andy Douglas getting out of cutting his hair. The story is that Bob Ryder, who has almost no respect anymore, convinced Jeff Jarrett that the hair cut wasn’t needed. The booking committee wanted to give them a new push with a new look. They had minor haircuts as a concession but they look almost the same as before. (From me: Yes, the booking committee decided what they wanted happening but Jeff decided to change it. It might have been something minor, but if Jeff is willing to step in on something like a haircut, just think what he’ll be like when the committee make the call to have Jarrett put over Joe for the title)
Some of those at TV looking for work were Brian Lee, Sean Waltman and Lance Hoyt.
Joe was unhappy at the tapings. He had a large welt under his eye from a potato shot from Steiner. He was arguing with D’Amore about something in front of the wrestlers, D’Amore was on at Joe for something else and Joe was yelling back. Eventually, they calmed things down and D’Amore apologized.
Monty Brown and Sen Shi have not signed new deals, but with Brown it might not even be considered a big issue. With Sen Shi, there was something in the deal he did not agree to. He was also unhappy at TV. He wasn’t happy about his PPV match not getting advertised and that he apparently only found about the match on the internet. He was also unhappy about, not only just working an Xplosion match at the TV taping, but also having to put over Sonjay Dutt.
A rep from ESPN India was at the taping interviewing wrestlers for the station. He said ratings for TNA on the station are huge, and talked about TNA maybe touring there.
Vignettes start soon for the Bobby Roode singles push. The angle will be that all the top managers are after him.
Team 3D won’t be used for a while as their contract is running low on dates.
The story behind the James Gang taking Eric Young under their wing is that they want the James Gang as faces and because they are the highest paid they need them over. In actuality, apparently, the hope is that it’s Young who gives them a rub from being so over himself.
D.A.V.E. - July 25, 2006 12:46 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (TheBigSwigg @ Jul 25 2006, 12:26 AM) |
| Vignettes start soon for the Bobby Roode singles push. The angle will be that all the top managers are after him. |
She's right there.
Mad Dog - July 25, 2006 08:11 PM (GMT)
You know Meltzer really sucks when it comes to TNA stuff. I think maybe he's lacking a good inside source and gets a lot of stuff second hand. PWInsider is a lot better. Here's what he had to say about the Joe/D'Amore thing:
| QUOTE |
| In regard to another story that has been making the rounds regarding a backstage incident between Samoa Joe and TNA creative member Scott D'Amore, the story has gotten a bit exaggerated. Reports that Joe was upset over his current use in the company are incorrect, although if he was angry about it, I could certainly see his point. The heated discussion was actually over the finish to the Rhino vs. Samoa Joe match that will air this Thursday on Impact. Those involved in the match had come up with a finish that differed from the original plan and were unable to get it approved since it was TV day and everyone was off handling their own duties. Joe voiced his concern to D'Amore and eventually all sides came to a compromise on the finish, the result of which will air this Thursday. |
whitemilesdavis - July 25, 2006 08:17 PM (GMT)
He also paints a very gloomy picture, when in fact TNA is in the best position it has been in...well, ever. I think the fact that the last PPV wasn't great is clouding the view. Slammiversary was awesome, Impact has been getting better and better, and they are holding viewers.
Mad Dog - July 25, 2006 08:21 PM (GMT)
Meltzer always overreacts to everything as far as TNA goes. As I said I think he gets a lot of info second hand due to lack of sources.
whitemilesdavis - July 25, 2006 08:25 PM (GMT)
He should have Cornette now.
Mad Dog - July 25, 2006 08:33 PM (GMT)
Yeah but Cornette isn't always there and he's still new to the company. I doubt he knows the inner workings yet.
dynamite kido - July 25, 2006 09:33 PM (GMT)
Dude, Meltz has more sources than ANYONE. PERIOD.
He's just not going to go apeshit about things when the company hasn't proved itself yet.
He's just not going to go apeshit about things when the company hasn't proved itself yet.
Mad Dog - July 25, 2006 09:55 PM (GMT)
I know he does. But he's less than stellar when talking about the backstage of TNA. He fell for the Abyss story last year, overreacted to the contract dispute Samoa Joe had and there's been several other times he's been way off. Which leads me to believe he doesn't have the kind of in with TNA that he has with the WWE.
dynamite kido - July 26, 2006 12:23 AM (GMT)
He's occasionally wrong with the WWE stuff too. Shit changes on a day to day basis, so naturally everything he reports isn't going to happen. Companies throw curveballs to the sheets constantly so it's nothing that different.
Scrooge McSuck - August 2, 2006 01:16 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Jul 25 2006, 04:17 PM) |
| He also paints a very gloomy picture, when in fact TNA is in the best position it has been in...well, ever. I think the fact that the last PPV wasn't great is clouding the view. Slammiversary was awesome, Impact has been getting better and better, and they are holding viewers. |
Lies! TNA lost me about 6 months ago when I was seeing matches for the 67th time, and unless they brought in ringers, every X-Division match was the same fucking flippy-floppy nonsense that totally kills the suspension of disblief that wrestling could be real.
dynamite kido - August 2, 2006 01:24 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Scrooge McSuck @ Aug 2 2006, 07:16 AM) | ||
Lies! TNA lost me about 6 months ago when I was seeing matches for the 67th time, and unless they brought in ringers, every X-Division match was the same fucking flippy-floppy nonsense that totally kills the suspension of disblief that wrestling could be real. |
WRONG.
Quit being so biased. You like fucking Hogan and Kane, and I would say that Kane exposed the business more times in his match against Big Show on ECW than the entire x-division has since it was created.
The Last Free Voice - August 3, 2006 02:21 PM (GMT)
Pwn3d. Welcome back Scrooge, indeed. Obviously I'm with DK Here. Impact's been improving every week. Even Nash and Stiener are bordering on entertaining.
whitemilesdavis - August 3, 2006 02:25 PM (GMT)
WRONG.
Nash and Steiner are the most entertaining thing in TNA.
Nash and Steiner are the most entertaining thing in TNA.
The Last Free Voice - August 3, 2006 02:35 PM (GMT)
Nash I could agree with. He's been ON in his promos and whatnot. Stiener has been on a hot streak, but I wouldn't say "Most entertaining".
whitemilesdavis - August 3, 2006 02:38 PM (GMT)
His program with Joe gave me hope that TNA could survive.
SamoaRowe - August 3, 2006 02:42 PM (GMT)
Since I've been back home, I've caught an episode of Raw, Impact, and ECW... I'd put the quality of those shows in this order:
1) Impact
2) ECW (though a dramatic improvement from previous quality)
3) Raw, and not even close to being as good as the other two.
It sounds like TNA's ppvs aren't as good as they were before, but Impact itself has been tremendous.
1) Impact
2) ECW (though a dramatic improvement from previous quality)
3) Raw, and not even close to being as good as the other two.
It sounds like TNA's ppvs aren't as good as they were before, but Impact itself has been tremendous.
whitemilesdavis - August 3, 2006 02:46 PM (GMT)
I would disagree. Slammiversary was one of the better PPV's I've seen from them. Victory Road was mediocre, but you can't hit a home run every time.
The Last Free Voice - August 3, 2006 02:47 PM (GMT)
The card for the next PPV looks really good. AJ/Daniels vs. LAX could steal the show.
SamoaRowe - August 3, 2006 02:48 PM (GMT)
I haven't seen either show, so I'm just voicing what they "sounded like" to me. I'll probably grab Slammiversary on dvd sometime.
So far the weakest TNA ppv I've seen was Genesis, and it still featured a couple of **** matches.
So far the weakest TNA ppv I've seen was Genesis, and it still featured a couple of **** matches.
jamiegeist - August 3, 2006 03:46 PM (GMT)
Yeah, I do agree that Hard Justice could be pretty good, even if it is a super gay name for a pay per view. I'm actually interested in Sting/Jarrett, especially with Christian in the fold.
And Rhyno/Joe/Monty sounds crazy fun for some reason, probably because of the awesome spot that ended the show last week.
And yeah, I'm jacked to see LAX/Daniels & Styles.
I believe Nash v Sabin is signed as well, with the implication that the winner will get an X Division Title shot.
And Rhyno/Joe/Monty sounds crazy fun for some reason, probably because of the awesome spot that ended the show last week.
And yeah, I'm jacked to see LAX/Daniels & Styles.
I believe Nash v Sabin is signed as well, with the implication that the winner will get an X Division Title shot.
whitemilesdavis - August 3, 2006 03:51 PM (GMT)
I don't want this angle to end yet, so I hope Nash crushes Sabin.
dynamite kido - August 3, 2006 05:17 PM (GMT)
Victory Road had a drop in quality for their PPV's, but I've seen no consistant drop. They are the definative wrestling company right now for the best PPV's.
whitemilesdavis - August 3, 2006 08:05 PM (GMT)
That's why I found Meltzer's comments of impending doom to be a bit rediculous considering how good their last PPV was, and by all accounts, this one wasn't terrible. Suddenly though, they are in big trouble.
SamoaRowe - August 3, 2006 08:38 PM (GMT)
TNA has been in impending doom since the day it opened up according to all the dirt sheets, yet it just celebrated it's fourth year as a promotion. Compared to WWE, it's still an infant, but four years at that level is a long time in this day and age where the wrestling business is down and Vince has been so good at keeping competition from appearing.
whitemilesdavis - August 3, 2006 08:41 PM (GMT)
What the hell is updending?
SamoaRowe - August 3, 2006 08:43 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitewahoomcdaniel @ Aug 3 2006, 02:41 PM) |
| What the hell is updending? |
Only the typo of the year.