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Title: Who was the best
Description: high flyer ever?


whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 02:32 PM (GMT)
Of course this is a question of opinion, but I think there are a few guys that stand out.

Hayabusa: Just the king of the sick spots. His influence can still be seen in flyers today. His flipping around made every match he was in exciting.

Tiger Mask (Sayama): Probably the fastest and most crisp of any flyer I've ever seen. His series with Dynamite Kid may be the blueprint for every cruiser match ever.

Rey Mysterio Jr.: In his early days he was about as good as anyone with the aerial moves. The last couple of years have damaged that reputation, though.

I don't know, watching my Hayabusa comp has made want to see some spot-fests.

So who do you think was the best?


And don't say Jack Evans.

SamoaRowe - July 10, 2006 02:34 PM (GMT)
Jack Evans.


whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 02:34 PM (GMT)
next.

SamoaRowe - July 10, 2006 02:37 PM (GMT)
Hey, Jack Evans is a good spot monkey. He's good at what he does, I respect that.

Okay, for really good high fliers: the usual suspects, being Hayabusa, Rey Mysterio (back in the day), and I might even be inclined to say Paul London when he's not being limited.

dynamite kido - July 10, 2006 02:37 PM (GMT)
Best high flyer of all time?

That's a tough one to answer, especially because it's basically just opinion.

I would have no problem throwing out Liger's name, Great Sasuke deserves a mention. Tiger Mask and DK are definate names that should be mentioned.

Hayabusa was good for his time, but I wouldn't say he's as influential as one may think.

whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 02:39 PM (GMT)
I think half of the indy flippers are directly ripping off Hayabusa.

dynamite kido - July 10, 2006 02:49 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Jul 10 2006, 08:39 AM)
I think half of the indy flippers are directly ripping off Hayabusa.

Well, they suck.....so what does that tell you?

Mad Dog - July 10, 2006 02:57 PM (GMT)
Great Sasuke or Rey Misterio if we're saying purely high flying. I think Mistico could also be up there in another 5 years or so as long as he doesn't suffer any serious injuries.

Ultimo Dragon is worth a mention. He was quick and rarely blew his big moves.

Scorpio deserves a mention as he innovated a lot of stuff in the early 90s.

Jushin Liger isn't a great high flier. He's a very good one but Liger's greatness in how well rounded he is as a wrestler.

Hayabusa I don't think was. For every really great thing he did in the ring he crashed and burned on a blown spot shortly after.

whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 03:05 PM (GMT)

QUOTE
Jushin Liger isn't a great high flier.  He's a very good one but Liger's greatness in how well rounded he is as a wrestler.


I would put Ultimo Dragon in this same category ( Dynamite Kid too). Dragon's strength to me was in the cool submissions he'd pull out.

QUOTE
Hayabusa I don't think was.  For every really great thing he did in the ring he crashed and burned on a blown spot shortly after.


I can't really argue with that, as he'd definitely blow a spot. But I think there is something to be said for that wreckless nature when it comes to being a flyer.

dynamite kido - July 10, 2006 03:08 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Jul 10 2006, 08:57 AM)
Great Sasuke or Rey Misterio if we're saying purely high flying.  I think Mistico could also be up there in another 5 years or so as long as he doesn't suffer any serious injuries.

Ultimo Dragon is worth a mention.  He was quick and rarely blew his big moves.

Scorpio deserves a mention as he innovated a lot of stuff in the early 90s.

Jushin Liger isn't a great high flier.  He's a very good one but Liger's greatness in how well rounded he is as a wrestler.

Hayabusa I don't think was.  For every really great thing he did in the ring he crashed and burned on a blown spot shortly after.

Liger WAS a GREAT high flyer, but he ended up changing his style to a degree. People tend to forget that he was basically the first (or one of the first) people on earth to do a shooting star press as well.

Scorpio doesn't deserve to be on the list as he was more of a flyer for his size, but he couldn't fly with the best of em...

Mad Dog - July 10, 2006 03:12 PM (GMT)
Liger innovated a lot of stuff but flying was only a portion of his game even during the height of his career. As a total wrestling package I think Liger is the best wrestler ever. As purely a flyer I'd say he's top 5 but probably No. 3 or No. 4.

whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 03:40 PM (GMT)
You know, I hadn't thought of Scorpio, but for his size he was quite the flyer. Probably not worth a mention among the best ever, but maybe the best at his size.

I'm not a fan of Great Sasuke. He could fly some, but it didn't generally result in great matches. Plus, he was a prick to Tazz.

dynamite kido - July 10, 2006 03:41 PM (GMT)
I guess that would be a fair assessment, I just don't know who you could DEFINATELY put ahead of him outside of Sayama.

whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 04:01 PM (GMT)
What about Rey?

dynamite kido - July 10, 2006 04:35 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Jul 10 2006, 10:01 AM)
What about Rey?

I couldn't put Rey up there as his work during that time was good, but spotty and often not as good as you'd think. There's more to high flying than hurricanranna's and that was Rey's specialty at the time.

But he's one HELL of a flyer, but I don't know if you could say best ever with him.

jamiegeist - July 10, 2006 04:49 PM (GMT)
I'd definitely put Sasuke very high.

This doesn't fit with the "best of all time" theme, but the stuff I saw from Dragon Kid in ROH and then in some DragonGate that I checked out is really good. He is a major throwback to the kind of high flying we're talking about. Does an incredible Dragon Rana too.

whitemilesdavis - July 10, 2006 05:22 PM (GMT)
I need to check out Dragon Kid. Heard alot about him lately.

SamoaRowe - July 10, 2006 05:32 PM (GMT)
I'll throw this one out too: Mike Awesome used to do some pretty great flying stuff considering how big he was. For a guy his size, it was impressive.

Real F'n Show - July 10, 2006 11:03 PM (GMT)
If Mike Awesome is the best highflyer ever, Rowe, I will Awesomebomb my own nutsack.

I'll go with Rey, too. I'm surprised no one's mentioned Sabu yet...

Mad Dog - July 10, 2006 11:18 PM (GMT)
He suffers from the fact that there isn't much footage of him before the injuries caught up with him around 1993 or so.

My Top 10:
  • 1. Rey Misterio
  • 2. Tiger Mask
  • 3. Jushin Liger
  • 4. Great Sasuke
  • 5. Juventud Guerrera
  • 6. Eddie Guerrero
  • 7. Ray Stevens
  • 8. Ultimo Dragon
  • 9. Randy Savage
  • 10. Psicosis

dynamite kido - July 11, 2006 12:02 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Jul 10 2006, 05:18 PM)
He suffers from the fact that there isn't much footage of him before the injuries caught up with him around 1993 or so.

My Top 10:
  • 1. Rey Misterio
  • 2. Tiger Mask
  • 3. Jushin Liger
  • 4. Great Sasuke
  • 5. Juventud Guerrera
  • 6. Eddie Guerrero
  • 7. Ray Stevens
  • 8. Ultimo Dragon
  • 9. Randy Savage
  • 10. Psicosis

You honestly mean to tell me that you can put HALF of those guys on that list without any mention of Dynamite Kid?

Mad Dog - July 11, 2006 12:05 AM (GMT)
I consider him to be more of a Benoit type of wrestler than a flying type of wrestler to be honest with you.

dynamite kido - July 11, 2006 12:08 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Jul 10 2006, 06:05 PM)
I consider him to be more of a Benoit type of wrestler than a flying type of wrestler to be honest with you.

Fair enough.

Ray Stevens then?

Mad Dog - July 11, 2006 12:11 AM (GMT)
For his time frame he was it as far as being a high flyer. Compared to the other guys on the list he isn't much like Savage but in his historical context I think he deserves a mention.

jamiegeist - July 11, 2006 01:29 AM (GMT)
If DK = Benoit, thus knocking him out of your list, how does Savage stay? Just curious.

And I'll probably catch hell for this, but Liger, to me, is not a "high flyer". Sure, he revolutionized and played a huge part in the evolution of that part of the game, but he ended up becoming the very defintion of a "Jr. Heavyweight" as opposed to a "high flyer". Not sure if that makes any sense, but it does to me.

Mad Dog - July 11, 2006 01:57 AM (GMT)
If you can find stuff of Savage in Memphis I would suggest you do it. He would do stuff like doing a double axehandle from the top rope down to the flood. Not impressive today but very few guys were doing what he did.

Though upon further consideration I'm dropping Psicosis in favor of Bobby Eaton.

Real F'n Show - July 11, 2006 03:26 AM (GMT)
Plus, Eaton's legdrop owned Psicosis'.

Big F'N Swigg - July 11, 2006 03:29 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (dynamite kido @ Jul 10 2006, 08:49 AM)
QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Jul 10 2006, 08:39 AM)
I think half of the indy flippers are directly ripping off Hayabusa.

Well, they suck.....so what does that tell you?

There's a dude in Tennessee I've seen that calls himself Menace, "The Blackanese Assasin." Dude wears the Hayabusa mask and everything. Nearly paralyzed a kid at a show my friend was working, and didn't even have the class to check on the kid after the match.

dynamite kido - July 11, 2006 03:33 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (jamiegeist @ Jul 10 2006, 07:29 PM)
And I'll probably catch hell for this, but Liger, to me, is not a "high flyer". Sure, he revolutionized and played a huge part in the evolution of that part of the game, but he ended up becoming the very defintion of a "Jr. Heavyweight" as opposed to a "high flyer". Not sure if that makes any sense, but it does to me.

I know exactly what you mean, and you're right. Although before Liger became that way he basically had a full career wrestling the high flying style.

Plus, if you are going to have a list of high flyers there's no way Ray Stevens should be on it if someone like Dynamite Kid wasn't. He was doing the flying headbutt before anyone? Plus, his matches with Sayama weren't just legendary, they were groundbreaking as far as high flying work went.

Real F'n Show - July 11, 2006 03:54 AM (GMT)
Didn't Dynamite Kid take the diving headbutt from Harley Race? I'm probably wrong but I remember reading that somewhere...

dynamite kido - July 11, 2006 04:07 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Real F'n Show @ Jul 10 2006, 09:54 PM)
Didn't Dynamite Kid take the diving headbutt from Harley Race? I'm probably wrong but I remember reading that somewhere...

He did, but they were obviously incredibly different headbutts.

Mad Dog - July 11, 2006 12:36 PM (GMT)
The original Tiger Mask has to be in a top 10 because almost every high flyer that's come along in the last 20 years has credited him as being their biggest influence. I still view Dynamite Kid in the Benoit mold. Technical monster that had high flying moves in his aresenal but didn't use them on a regular enough basis.

Savage I think belongs on there because he and Eaton were the only ones doing the real crazy stuff at the time. Snuka was kind of doing some crazy stuff but it was only the Superfly Leap. No real variety and he was mostly a power wrestler.

dynamite kido - July 11, 2006 12:49 PM (GMT)
Dude that makes no sense. Savage was doing his stuff when Sayama and DK were doing it.

If you want to talk about no variety in flying you have to look no further than Savage or Stevens on your list.

Mad Dog - July 11, 2006 01:01 PM (GMT)
Savage did a lot of stuff in Memphis that he didn't do once he got to the WWF because he was already at the tail end of his prime by the time that run started. He was doing moves from the top rope to the floor, the neck snap over the ropes, the flying elbow and a couple of other moves off the top rope. He probably would've been doing moves off the top of cages too if the Memphis cages could've been climbed. It doesn't look like much today but no one else in the United States was doing it at the time.

Savage was also putting people through tables long before ECW was too.

dynamite kido - July 11, 2006 01:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Jul 11 2006, 07:01 AM)
Savage did a lot of stuff in Memphis that he didn't do once he got to the WWF because he was already at the tail end of his prime by the time that run started. He was doing moves from the top rope to the floor, the neck snap over the ropes, the flying elbow and a couple of other moves off the top rope. He probably would've been doing moves off the top of cages too if the Memphis cages could've been climbed. It doesn't look like much today but no one else in the United States was doing it at the time.

Savage was also putting people through tables long before ECW was too.

I've seen a lot of his Memphis work, it's not THAT high flying. He did all of his high flying stuff that he did in Memphis in his initial 1986b WWE run. They brought him in as a flyer with a mean streak.

Also, Savage might have put ONE person through a table, but then again Hogan put Race through a table in 86, but that doesn't necessessarily mean he's Tommy Dreamer.

whitemilesdavis - July 11, 2006 01:40 PM (GMT)
The mention of Ray Stevens on this list baffles me.

I would agree with DK being the ground guy for Tiger Mask to play off. DK certainly had the ability to fly, but was much more than that.

Mad Dog - July 11, 2006 02:03 PM (GMT)
If I were to go down another 5 I'd add:

Psicosis
Shinjiro Ohtani
Taka Michinoku
Brian Pillman
Dynamite Kid

whitemilesdavis - July 11, 2006 02:53 PM (GMT)
Pillman is a good mention, as he was really leading the cruiserweight surge before his injury.

Psicosis was a good flyer when he was young, but was more effective playing cather for Rey.

I almost forgot to mention Chris Hamrick.

prof_plague - July 12, 2006 01:51 AM (GMT)
Antonio Rocca

Bitches.

Real F'n Show - July 12, 2006 03:12 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (prof_plague @ Jul 11 2006, 08:51 PM)
Antonio Rocca

Bitches.

The barefooted guy who did the footslaps? I saw an old picture of him and he looked like the shit.




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