Title: Best Worker in the WWE?
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 03:58 PM (GMT)
Call this a blatant attempt to generate some discussion, though we may mostly agree.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 04:04 PM (GMT)
As far as best worker goes, there's three people that come to mind to me.
Mysterio, Benoit, and Finlay
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 04:07 PM (GMT)
Benoit and Mysterio I'll definitely have to agree with. I haven't watched enough WWE in the last few weeks to have a solid opinion on Finlay. I also would put Angle in the discussion, even though he worries me every time he steps into the ring.
Mad Dog - April 28, 2006 04:07 PM (GMT)
Rey Misterio probably. Benoit's still top 5 but he's lost a lot of steps over the past year. I expect his decline to continue but remain a top 5 guy for awhile as there's a huge quality drop after Misterio/Benoit/Burchall/Finlay/Albright.
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 04:10 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Apr 28 2006, 12:07 PM) |
| Rey Misterio probably. Benoit's still top 5 but he's lost a lot of steps over the past year. I expect his decline to continue but remain a top 5 guy for awhile as there's a huge quality drop after Misterio/Benoit/Burchall/Finlay/Albright. |
Interesting pick with Burchill.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 04:10 PM (GMT)
Angle.
Honestly, Finlay doesn't even belong in the discussion.
Mysterio is obviously up there. I think Benoit has slipped.
After that, there just aren't many workers on the roster.
I will say, I think Charlie Haas will be great.
Mad Dog - April 28, 2006 04:14 PM (GMT)
Angle's like the 8th best worker. He might even drop out of the top 10 when I take MNM as individual workers into consideration. This would be my top 10:
1. Rey Misterio
2. Chris Benoit
3. Brent Albright
4. Paul Burchall
5. Fit Finlay
huge gap here....
6. Shawn Michaels
7. William Regal
8. Joey Matthews
9. Johnny Nitro
10. JBL
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 04:19 PM (GMT)
No offense MD, but you're out of your mind on that one. Angle has drug Undertaker and Mark henry to very good matches lately. UNDERTAKER and HENRY. The guy is magic in the ring, even in his half crippled state.
Albright has had one match. How can he be the third best worker? I like MNM, but they are know where near as good as London and Spanky.
I just don't get the reasoningbehind your list at all.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 04:24 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 10:10 AM) |
Angle.
Honestly, Finlay doesn't even belong in the discussion.
Mysterio is obviously up there. I think Benoit has slipped.
After that, there just aren't many workers on the roster.
I will say, I think Charlie Haas will be great. |
Honestly, how does Finlay NOT belong in the discussion?
He's the best working heel in the company. Nobody touches him......NOBODY.
Angle is one of the better workers in the company but has fallen a bit recently.
Mad Dog - April 28, 2006 04:27 PM (GMT)
I've seen Albright's OVW work. He is quite simply an amazing worker and he's carried a lot of sub-par talent well above their level.
Angle's match with Undertaker is overrated. He shouldn't get credit because the Taker decides to actually try in a match. Misterio had better matches with Henry in the same time frame.
MNM as a tag team is the best thing to hit the division since 2000. They are a true tag team and would be the best heel team in the U.S. if AMW hadn't turned heel last year. They made freaking Batista look good.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 04:33 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (dynamite kido @ Apr 28 2006, 12:24 PM) |
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 10:10 AM) | Angle.
Honestly, Finlay doesn't even belong in the discussion.
Mysterio is obviously up there. I think Benoit has slipped.
After that, there just aren't many workers on the roster.
I will say, I think Charlie Haas will be great. |
Honestly, how does Finlay NOT belong in the discussion?
He's the best working heel in the company. Nobody touches him......NOBODY.
Angle is one of the better workers in the company but has fallen a bit recently.
|
The question was about great workers, and I take that as in-ring. Finlay has not had one great match since he came in. I realize that he hasn't really had the opportunity, but that's my point. WWE isn't big on work.
I still disagree on Angle. I think he's been incredible lately. I even loved his beatdown on Orton, who I think sucks.
MNM is a good tag team, and very good personailties, but as workers, neither of them is good.
I have seen Albright in OVW too, but I don't see how that translates him into being the 3rd best worker in WWE. It's a completely different stage, and he hasn't proven himself on the big stage yet. Like Haas, I think he has all the potential in the world, but ranking either of them as WWE's top workers would be a bit premature.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 04:42 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| The question was about great workers, and I take that as in-ring. Finlay has not had one great match since he came in. I realize that he hasn't really had the opportunity, but that's my point. WWE isn't big on work. |
What? Finlay's stuff on SD has been gold since he's made his return. Plus the argument is great workers, NOT great matches. There's a difference there.
| QUOTE |
| I still disagree on Angle. I think he's been incredible lately. I even loved his beatdown on Orton, who I think sucks. |
His stuff with Orton was nothing special IMO.......
| QUOTE |
| MNM is a good tag team, and very good personailties, but as workers, neither of them is good. |
I would argue with that as I think MNM are pretty damn good tag workers.
| QUOTE |
| I have seen Albright in OVW too, but I don't see how that translates him into being the 3rd best worker in WWE. It's a completely different stage, and he hasn't proven himself on the big stage yet. Like Haas, I think he has all the potential in the world, but ranking either of them as WWE's top workers would be a bit premature. |
Fuck that shit, if you can work you can work. It's not like if Joe came to the WWE tomorrow that you would say that you are going to have to wait and see if he's a good worker or not. If he was good SOMEWHERE before, he's good now.
Mad Dog - April 28, 2006 04:44 PM (GMT)
And it's more a statement to how awful the quality of WWF workers are that Albright jumps that high on my list upon getting called up.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 04:59 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Apr 28 2006, 12:44 PM) |
| And it's more a statement to how awful the quality of WWF workers are that Albright jumps that high on my list upon getting called up. |
That I can agree with.
Now, if we are taking in past work and future potential, my list will be a bit different. I'll go study the rosters.
OK - point no.1: Albright isn't listed on the roster. Not as Gunnar or anything. Appears he was a one-timer, like Colt Cabana from last week.
1. Angle - The best in the WWE at all aspects of pro wrestling. In 10-15 years, he will be the one remembered.
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Charlie Haas
4. Jamie Noble
5. Shawn Michaels
6. Gregory Helms
7. Paul London
8. Triple H
9. Rob Conway
10. Val Venis
There is your top-ten workers. Infallible.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 05:02 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
1. Angle - The best in the WWE at all aspects of pro wrestling. In 10-15 years, he will be the one remembered.
2. Rey Mysterio 3. Charlie Haas 4. Jamie Noble 5. Shawn Michaels 6. Gregory Helms 7. Paul London 8. Triple H 9. Rob Conway 10. Val Venis
|
Helms? Okay, now you've got to be fucking kidding me.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 05:04 PM (GMT)
Why would you say that. He's got all the potential in the world, and he's been great outside of WWE. I don't see the difference in this and in your Albright arguement.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 05:09 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 11:04 AM) |
| Why would you say that. He's got all the potential in the world, and he's been great outside of WWE. I don't see the difference in this and in your Albright arguement. |
You mean about Helms?
He's not even close to the level of Finlay right now. That's why I said what I said.
prof_plague - April 28, 2006 05:32 PM (GMT)
A lot of credit goes to the jobbers - the ones who sell and take the bumps:
Val Venis
Steven Richards
Scotty 2 Hotty
to name a few.
As for the top dogs:
Angle, Michaels (I'm not a Michaels fan but he can entertain), Benjamin and Haas, Rey is fairly solid, Benoit isn't as good as he once was - but still great, JBL, and Batista has come along way. I can't wait to see him and Kennedy back soon.
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 06:00 PM (GMT)
I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. And honestly, I just haven't seen enough Finlay--or any Albright--to say whether they're good workers or not. I really would go with Benoit, Mysterio, and Angle. Even though Angle's body is clearly quitting on him, he's still a superior worker.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 06:02 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 02:00 PM) |
| I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. |
Wow. I would say Benjamin is anything but solid. That's the only thing I have against him. He seems to have the physical ability, he just hasn't put it together yet.
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 06:05 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 02:02 PM) |
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 02:00 PM) | | I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. |
Wow. I would say Benjamin is anything but solid. That's the only thing I have against him. He seems to have the physical ability, he just hasn't put it together yet.
|
Well, I'd agree he hasn't put it all together, but I've always thought he does just fine, with flashes of the spectacular.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 06:17 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 12:02 PM) |
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 02:00 PM) | | I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. |
Wow. I would say Benjamin is anything but solid. That's the only thing I have against him. He seems to have the physical ability, he just hasn't put it together yet.
|
I agree 100% on that WMD. Benjamin's problem is that he's not solid. Don't get me wrong, Shelton is one of if not THE best althete in the entire company. But when Haas came back you could kind of see how Haas was clearly the more SOLID of the two.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 06:19 PM (GMT)
Yeah, whereas Choate said "fine, with flashes of spectacular", I'd say "Pure crap, with flashes of spectacular".
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 06:19 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (dynamite kido @ Apr 28 2006, 02:17 PM) |
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 12:02 PM) | | QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 02:00 PM) | | I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. |
Wow. I would say Benjamin is anything but solid. That's the only thing I have against him. He seems to have the physical ability, he just hasn't put it together yet.
|
I agree 100% on that WMD. Benjamin's problem is that he's not solid. Don't get me wrong, Shelton is one of if not THE best althete in the entire company. But when Haas came back you could kind of see how Haas was clearly the more SOLID of the two.
|
I agree that Haas is a more solid worker, but I see nothing wrong with Benjamin's in ring work. If we talk about him cutting a promo, on the other hand...
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 06:20 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 12:19 PM) |
| QUOTE (dynamite kido @ Apr 28 2006, 02:17 PM) | | QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 12:02 PM) | | QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 02:00 PM) | | I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. |
Wow. I would say Benjamin is anything but solid. That's the only thing I have against him. He seems to have the physical ability, he just hasn't put it together yet.
|
I agree 100% on that WMD. Benjamin's problem is that he's not solid. Don't get me wrong, Shelton is one of if not THE best althete in the entire company. But when Haas came back you could kind of see how Haas was clearly the more SOLID of the two.
|
I agree that Haas is a more solid worker, but I see nothing wrong with Benjamin's in ring work. If we talk about him cutting a promo, on the other hand...
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How about the fact that Shelton is fairly sloppy and tends to screw up MAJOR spots in his matches?
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 06:21 PM (GMT)
There for a while, he couldn't hit ANY spot. Thankfully, he's recovered from that lapse into retardedness.
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 06:23 PM (GMT)
I just don't think Benjamin is either terrible or amazing. Hence why I went with "solid".
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 06:26 PM (GMT)
Ok. You know, I think he should be great, and maybe that's why I'm hard on him. I want him to get it, but he just doesn't seem too. My hope is now in Haas to carry on the greatness of Team Angle.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 06:27 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 12:23 PM) |
| I just don't think Benjamin is either terrible or amazing. Hence why I went with "solid". |
Solid to me would be someone like Abyss.............he manages to do good with everyone he's in there with. That's not the case for Shelton....
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 06:28 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 02:26 PM) |
| Ok. You know, I think he should be great, and maybe that's why I'm hard on him. I want him to get it, but he just doesn't seem too. My hope is now in Haas to carry on the greatness of Team Angle. |
He DOES have a lot of room for improvement, and it's important to remember that he's still young enough to put it all together.
Oh, and Abyss I would classify as "good". Solid to me means decent.
whitemilesdavis - April 28, 2006 06:40 PM (GMT)
Just a difference in terminology. I think we are all saying basically the same thing.
By the way, my definition for solid would be Finlay.
prof_plague - April 28, 2006 07:08 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (whitemilesdavis @ Apr 28 2006, 12:02 PM) |
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 02:00 PM) | | I wouldn't say Benjamin is a fantastic worker, but he epitomizes the word "solid" for me. |
Wow. I would say Benjamin is anything but solid. That's the only thing I have against him. He seems to have the physical ability, he just hasn't put it together yet.
|
Give him a few years and the right push...he could be the next Shawn Michaels.
There - I said it.
Mad Dog - April 28, 2006 07:17 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (dynamite kido @ Apr 28 2006, 02:27 PM) |
| QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 12:23 PM) | | I just don't think Benjamin is either terrible or amazing. Hence why I went with "solid". |
Solid to me would be someone like Abyss.............he manages to do good with everyone he's in there with. That's not the case for Shelton....
|
They've depushed Benjamin to the point where he just quit caring in the ring anymore.
dynamite kido - April 28, 2006 07:23 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Mad Dog @ Apr 28 2006, 01:17 PM) |
| QUOTE (dynamite kido @ Apr 28 2006, 02:27 PM) | | QUOTE (TheGreatWhiteChoate @ Apr 28 2006, 12:23 PM) | | I just don't think Benjamin is either terrible or amazing. Hence why I went with "solid". |
Solid to me would be someone like Abyss.............he manages to do good with everyone he's in there with. That's not the case for Shelton....
|
They've depushed Benjamin to the point where he just quit caring in the ring anymore.
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I don't buy that one bit, the guy is the IC champion.....
Mad Dog - April 28, 2006 07:25 PM (GMT)
Yeah but from June to January the guy didn't win a single match and barely got above doing Heat duty.
jamiegeist - April 28, 2006 08:23 PM (GMT)
Interesting argument that I am a little late on, but I thought I'd try my hand a top 10, for fun:
1. Angle
2. Triple H
3. Mysterio
4. Benoit
5. Nitro
6. Finlay
7. Mercury
8. Super Crazy
9. London
10. Regal
I can't put Albright on, just cause he hasn't been on enough. Burchall to me has steadily declined since his push, and isn't doing much to impress, although it is hard to do in nothin 4 minute matches, so whatever.
TheGreatWhiteChoate - April 28, 2006 08:24 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (jamiegeist @ Apr 28 2006, 04:23 PM) |
Interesting argument that I am a little late on, but I thought I'd try my hand a top 10, for fun:
1. Angle 2. Triple H 3. Mysterio 4. Benoit 5. Nitro 6. Finlay 7. Mercury 8. Super Crazy 9. London 10. Regal
I can't put Albright on, just cause he hasn't been on enough. Burchall to me has steadily declined since his push, and isn't doing much to impress, although it is hard to do in nothin 4 minute matches, so whatever. |
Whoa, Triple H as number two? Explain that one to me?
SamoaRowe - April 28, 2006 08:27 PM (GMT)
Hmm... I guess the obvious choice would be Kurt Angle. However, the most underrated WWE star is (still) Paul London.
jamiegeist - April 28, 2006 08:40 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
QUOTE (jamiegeist @ Apr 28 2006, 04:23 PM) Interesting argument that I am a little late on, but I thought I'd try my hand a top 10, for fun:
1. Angle 2. Triple H 3. Mysterio 4. Benoit 5. Nitro 6. Finlay 7. Mercury 8. Super Crazy 9. London 10. Regal
I can't put Albright on, just cause he hasn't been on enough. Burchall to me has steadily declined since his push, and isn't doing much to impress, although it is hard to do in nothin 4 minute matches, so whatever.
Whoa, Triple H as number two? Explain that one to me? |
Not sure I can "explain" it as I've somehow gone from just despising the guy to suddenly really enjoying everything he is doing. The last few months, I've just been really into him, both in and out of the ring. You guys discussed definitions of "solid" earlier, and to me, Triple H is as solid as they come. And the guy can flat out bring it when he wants to. Even though he is a bit of a musclehead and is getting up there in age, he really can still go hard in the ring. I don't know. Maybe I just got flooded by his hype and finally bought into the bullshit.
prof_plague - April 28, 2006 08:59 PM (GMT)
Nitro over Mercury? I probably would have said Mercury over Nitro. I don't think Nitro could survive as a singles wrestler just yet without being overly bland.