Holy Shit. I know I'm incredibly behind the times, but I have to say that is my (revised) choice for Match of the Year. Just incredible. Not *****, but damn well close. Insanely awesome.

Ugh...... that match is **** tops and probably closer to ***1/2 stars. There's no fucking way that it was the MOTY.

It was a great match, but I have a feeling every time I watch it, it'll get worse.

I haven't seen it yet, but I'm gonna have to. I'm also gonna have to start giving more matches *****.

It's 90% chops. It's an ok match but instantly forgettable. Joe had at least 6 matches in 2005 that were better. Joe/Styles from Turning Point blows it out of the water.

It's Joe fighting on his home turf against the legend from Japan. It's Kobashi trying to prove he's still got it. Neither man backs down, and Kobashi has to damn near kill Joe to win. It may not be the greatest in terms of move set, but it's a damn awesome match. I give it ****1/2.

Wow. First negative review I've heard on it.

It was a solid match but it wasn't anything special. It was choperrific and the RoH fans were especially disgusting as they were chanting "this is awesome" about a minute into the match. They never really got going as they hadn't even started breaking out moves until about the last 2/10s of the match. It was just chopping leading up to that. Ending was kind of a letdown too as he got the pin and you're still kind of expecting them to kick it into a higher gear.

It's getting a RoH and Kobashi fanboy response. Had it happened in another fed, TNA, it would be getting called overrated and a disappointment.

I totally disagree. The fans were a bit too into the "This is awesome" thing, but I can't blame them. I think the problem is that it's been so hyped that it seems like a bit of a letdown when it's not THE BEST MATCH EVAR!!!!!

Then it's not a ***** is it? For even ****1/2 can you really say that it's oh say in the best 30 matches you've seen.

I never said it was Five stars. And I do think it's top thirty for me. Maybe it'll change after more viewings, but it left me with that "WOW." feeling not many matches have.

A lot of people have it at ***** though. If you listened to a lot of RoH fans there's more ***** RoH matches floating around out there than there's been in the history of North American wrestling.

You do have a point there Mad Dog, and a lot of the time it's two skinny indy boys, doing backyard wrestling in a ring. Some of the stuff I've heard pimped from the bots has just astounded me on how bad it was. Nevertheless, I think the surreal nature of Kobashi with Joe in an American ring is enough for me to check it out.

That's why I take anything I hear from any of my "Rohbot" friends with a grain of salt. I admit, I checked the DVD out because of all the hype, but to me, it delivered, because I wasn't expecting five stars, I was just expecting a good, hard hitting match.

I hope I don't come off as a "Rohbot", because I'm not. I honestly don't follow it closely enough, in terms of buying all the DVD's. It's my faveourite company, however, so I guess I give it a bit of leeway.

The general rule I have is if a RoH match is getting pimped hard as around ***** it's really closer to about ***1/2. General rule of thumb is to knock off a *1/2 from most matches. Not always true with some stuff. I'd say the *1/2 subtraction rule applies roughly 75% of the time.

It's telling that RoHbots almost instantly forget a supposedly MOTYC by the end of the next show. It's not that good if you forget about it instantly. I'll be honest and say I've probably seen 6 ***** matches in North American and probably around 8 for Japan. So you're looking at 14 matches that qualify as the height of wrestling.

Honestly, I don't really care for Star ratings all that much, at least when matches first happen. I like to wait 'till I can see them on DVD and watch them more than once. Any star ratings from live shows are going to be biased because of the atmosphere of the ROH (or any company, but I've felt it most at ROH's) shows.

Dude, don't get me wrong. I hate the ROHbots as much as the next guy. BUT, I do see bias on your part on a LOT of ROH stuff. Now in all fairness I haven't seen the Kobashi/Joe match (I've had it on my comp for sometime and I'm going to watch the show probably this week) but I highly doubt that match to be ANYTHING lower than ***1/2. I don't mark out, and I like both guys, and I've certainly seen enough of both of their work to qualify. I also waited so long to watch it to wait for all the hype of the match to get out of my head. So basically this week, I'll post my thoughts on it if I still get it off a friend of mine.

Man, you're the biggest Kobashi mark going.

I think Shelley/Spanky from the spring was probably RoH match of the year as far as I'm concerned.

Mad Dog is my new favorite poster. From reports on my translation scale, it sounds like a ***-ish match. Translation being "don't listen to anything ROH mutants say" and piecing together several opinions when detail is put into the match.

Scrooge, shut up. There's taking things with a grain of salt, and then there's people like you, who hate on what's popular because you think it makes you look cool. Drop the "Smarter than thou" act, douchebag.

Whatever... but the match doesn't sound that good. An annoying crowd, chops after chops after chops after chops after chops.... etc., doesn't sound too great to me. ***** has become such a worthless meaning in wrestling that I wonder why people bother with it anymore. Mad Dog's opinion sounds like the best here, and goes along with others who rate it the same that I trust.


Edit: no offense LFV, but I probably am smarter than you.

If you haven't seen the match, butt the fuck out. Bashing on ROH crowds for the sake of bashing ROH crowds is fucking stupid, as we all know they're full of dipshits.

ROH fans are the worst fans I've ever heard of. Yes, even more than ECW. And the dead crowds of WWE.

God. Trying to talk to you is like conversing with a brick wall... Fuck this.

I didn't know it was that hard to follow "ROH fans suck." You need me to order you hooked-on-phonics or something?

No, I understood what you said, but you just seem to be ignoring my whole AGREEING WITH YOU AND TRYING TO MOVE ON thing.

Feud of 2006 so far.

Oh, my bad.

(orders myself hooked on phonics... IN FRENCH)


Now, back to Joe/Kobashi. I know this is a very lame argument, but I've shown that I can generate a valid opinion by just piecing things together and never watching it, thanks to constructive arguments between various opinions and how much I trust their opinions. Judging by the match PBP, it doesn't sound like a 5-star classic, the crowd ruins the feel of the match, and if the non-stop chopping is true, that just gets annoying fast. It sounds to me like a ***-**** range match. That's a compliment from me, since I'm strick with stars, and rarely go above **** with anything.


When judging Punk/Joe, I just made fun of it for being called a ***** match because it went 60 minutes. I had no intention of being fair, and just said that to be a dick.

Ah......

the language for asking a crackhead for a blowjob in the subway.

Having to learn french is enough punishment for me than having a guy do that to me. :(

It reminds me of those ads in the 80s to learn French with some cartoon series. I don't remember what it was called though. The commercials probably lasted into the early 90s.

I saw them until a few years back. A bunch of faggy things with a big bear-ish thing. Barney the dinosaur I think it was.

I remember the bear like creature. It had that awful Super Book kind of animation to it.

EDIT: These commercials were a good 5-7 years before Barney ever showed up.

Scrooge's mini-flame wars have been the most entertaining thing on the board for last few days.

(chants) Poster of the Year! Poster of the Year!

Seriously, what mini flame-wars? Other than with jamiegeist and this one arguing about mobley and LFV, I can't think of any. And those were "I make stupid comments, I get yelled at for saying stupid comments", not flame-wars. :D


And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming. Even when I'm nice about ROH, it makes me the biggest heel here.

It's not that you don't like ROH, it's that you bash it without ever seeing it. That's just as bad as mindlessly praising it.

I'm not bashing it. I'm just pointing out the few big flaws, and said it sounds like a very good match. Read any of my reviews, and you'll see how stubborn I am. ***+ in my book is probably ****+ in yours.

Dude, you DO needlessly bash it. It's the only complaint I have about you on this board is that you bash shit you've never seen (aka TSM syndrome).

So basically, LFV quit calling people names and Scrooge if you haven't seen a match, don't fucking needlessly bash it.

That being said.............move on.

P.S. - YO WMD, I'LL TAKE MARKING FOR KOBASHI OVER CORINO ANYDAY MY FRIEND.

I love how everyone can call Scrooge a douche but me.