Thanks to my free month of onlin WWE 24/7 since I purchased taboo tuesday and all, (hah) I was just reliving some kickass moments from my glory days of wrestling. I just watched Taker go over Hogan at Survivor Series 90, complete with a nice Funeral Parlor segment from earlier, featuring Hogan, Taker, Flair, Savage, Piper. Man, I loved this shit when Flair came over.

Anyway, I was thinking of comparisons to then and now. We (the IWC) always bitch when a new talent with a silly gimmick is thrust way up the card very quickly. Well look at Taker. Very new in the WWE (that SS would be one year actually), about the silliest gimmick you can get (he is dead.....or something) and definitely not a moveset to write home about.

I was just curious, do you think the IWC was bitching then? And I never noticed it as a kid, but how much did people hate Hogan by even this time? People were going fuckin nuts in the crowd when Taker won the strap here, and I don't even remember that being a factor in my mind. Just curious, and starting some convo.

Hogan's popularity was a bit weakened by 1990, which is probably the main reason they put the title on Warrior to see if he could carry the company. When that didn't happen, they just put it back on Hogan until they could make someone else... then they got Flair, so Undertaker got to be a transitional champion to set up the Rumble Title Match.

For 1990, Undertakers gimmick was rather unusual. WWF's biggest cartoon days were 1993-1996 where you had nothing but gimmicks, and not characters. The Underaker character was too effective to not get into, and it shows something when he's getting too popular that they had to turn him face leading up to WrestleMania VIII.

Well, there wasn't an IWC then so they couldn't have had an opinion on it.

Although, the Undertaker was going to be build as a heel to begin with at the time in 1990 and apparently the WWF was set on the character working out. Otherwise they wouldn't have had Hogan do the job to the Taker so early in his arrival. But making him totally impervious to pain can only do one thing....................turn you face. But the one thing that I think the WWF realized at the time was that The Undertaker probably wasn't championship material. By now he's been given the belt several times, but at the time I think they thought about him being constantly at the top of the card, but because of the gimmick it would hold him away from the title again. Which seemed to be true all the way up until Wrestlemania XIII which was quite some time after his first title win.

Well, there sorta' was an IWC back then...people would send updates out via UseNet and old bulletin board discussion groups. Essentially, it was like the Internet without websites. I've found some archived reports dating back to 1991 on "Herb's Wrestling Stuff". But it was a completely different animal than what we have today. Back then, not alot of people even had computers....even less of those had a modem... even less of those knew how to find revelant content.

I kinda' think you can attribute alot of Undie's rise to timing and luck. When he debuted, absolutely nobody expected it. You expected the "mystery opponent" to be Dustin Rhodes. When it was announced as "The Undertaker" you popped up and said "who? what?". It was definitely a different way to introduce a new guy.

The novelty factor was there and his look helped as well. At the same time, the WWF debutted other gimmick-heavy characters such as the Viking and Saba Simba. Just like "Mean Mark", these were gimmicks applied to fairly well known workers (Tony Atlas and Nord the Barbarian). But "Mean Mark's" pasty white complexion really seemed to fit and breathe life into the gimmick (no pun intended). Yes, people knew who he was, but the gimmick was so different and seemed to click so well, that within two months you were glad to forget about "Mean Mark", the boring redhead stiff with the heart-punch.

Timing helped as well. When he debutted, the Warrior was champ and losing popularity, quickly. Then Slaughter and Hogan received runs at the top. The Slaughter run was ridiculous and to follow that up with another "business as usual" reign with Hogan turned alot of folks away from the main event scene. During Hogan's 3rd reign, there weren't many top threats..he defended against Slaughter, Earthuqake and the Warlord. The Warlord! The title scene was stale and with no real threats looming, it was easy to push Undertaker to the top-- both for the fans and the bookers.

When Sid Justice debutted, things became cloudy. Everyone assumed he would be champ when 92 rolled around. But Sid was programmed as a babyface, initially, then was sidelined with an injury for a bit. That sort'a short-circuited the main event plans for the Fall of 91, opening up yet another channel for Taker's ascension. Taker wouldn't have to go through Sid, as expected--- he could just jump that level and go straight to Hogan. By the end of 1991, the two top heel threats were Taker and Ric Flair (a guy who hadn't even been on the roster, six months earlier).

Hogan seriously had a house show program with the Warlord?! Jesus, I wonder who Davey Boy got to work programs with... Haku maybe? :P

Back to 'Taker... I give him shit all the time, but he's had hardly any good title reigns.

Reign #1: Lasted 6 days, with about 2-3 defenses against Davey Boy Smith
Reign #2: 1997, and his best
Reign #3: 1999, and lost it within 4 weeks, sandwiched between Austin runs.
Reign #4: Had a string of good matches in July, but June was totally forgetable.

Yeah, around June or July 1991 Warlord starting getting house show title shots. Davey Boy was working shows against Mr. Perfect over the summer. In the fall, Davey Boy got to work with...... the Berzerker!!!

Oh yeah..whattabout Taker's mid-2002 title run?! I only remember he got to drag Hogan (wearing a safety helmet, skid plates and a flack jacket) down a corridor with his bike.

That was reign #4. Beat Hogan at Judgment Day 2002 (worst. chokeslam. ever) and lost to the Rock at Vengeance.

Gotta love that segment too. Undertaker drags Hogan around while he's on some kind of trolley, then crashes him into empty boxes and cheap "pipes". Hogan, of course, sells it like death.

Very good, informative, and logical reponse Stragand. That was a break of fresh air.

I just wonder how close it was to being one of those other silly gimmicks that got the push to the top, instead of the silly Zombie dude.