I was re-reading the article about how Samoa Joe made ROH's belt prestigious. The argument was that Joe didn't need the belt, but the belt needed Joe. Joe brought the belt the validity and prestige that not many others could have made.

Using this argument, who are the wrestlers that could make the Heavyweight Titles on RAW & Smackdown better? Here are my opinoins:

For RAW:

Benoit.- I know his first title run was shit, but it's not his fault. If they played to the fact that he is the best technical wrestler on the roster, he would elevate the belt nicely. A nearly year long stint with the belt during which he outwrestled his opponents would make the belt seem like a difficult object to attain. Have opponents like HHH cheat to win, and STILL lose. Make Benoit play up that he studies his opponents, that he eats, sleeps, and breathes wrestling.

Rhyno/Batista- Either of these guys could make the belt better, as they are consistently over without being pushed (Rhyno gets pops without having been on TV in weeks, Batista because he's Pimptista). Batista more than Rhyno at the moment. Put either one in a position where their sheer strength and durability make them difficult to best. Have the announcers play up that they wear their opponents out by pummeling them into submission.

For SMACKDOWN!:

Big Show- Much like Rhyno/Batista, you could play the power of Big Show well. Except that Big Show doesn't necessarily need it. Emphasize how it's hard to take down the Big Show. Make people sell scoop moves and anything that requires picking him up like it's impossible. (As a side note: Cena FU-ing Show at WMXX was a horrible idea. They could've played that for months with "Can Cena do it" type hype and they blew it in one match.) That alone makes the belt more valuable.

Eddie- Here's the thing: A champ that "lies, cheats & steals" isn't immediately credible. Look at Jericho's Undisputed reign. Had he won at WM 18, he would've had a little credibility, but not much. This is why Eddie needs to be played as a crafty veteran, not just a guy who cheats to win. Emphasize that Eddie was raised in the business and that he knows all the tricks in the book. Eddie is then hard to beat not because he cheats, but because he knows all the cheats. Therefore if wrestler A was trying to cheat in a certain way, Eddie can tell and reacts accordingly. He's hard to beat because he's intelligent. Like Flair was at times.

Tell me what YOU think.

You know guys, a "gee Swiggy, you're right" or a "No Swiggy, I think you're wrong," or even a "You know what I like Swiggy? Corn Pops" would be nice.

I'm new. I don't know how you guys treat newbs. But whatever.

I think you're spot on with the Batista thing. He gets pops for no apparent reason other than he owns every big guy in the company. If they book him right like you suggested, he could restore credibility on the RAW side.

On SmackDown, they're really hurting. I agree with you on Eddie, he's pretty much the most talented guy there that is anywhere near the top. Unfortunately, he's been doing nothing since he lost the title. Angle seems to be on a severe decline, and that makes me sad. I haven't tested the waters here, so I don't know how this will be received, but I'm thinking JBL is doing a good job. He has improved tremendously in charactar work, and his in-ring stuff has always been so-so, but the way he's going right now is better than I ever remember him being. So I say let him hang onto it.

Rhyno? He's been buried for years and really shouldn't be anywhere near a World Title.

Batista has been protected and would be a credible champ.

Rhyno isn't World Champion material. He's short and stocky and hasn't really shown he can cut any kind of promo. Plus his gimmick isn't a WWE creation.

Batista I could see becoming a Main Eventer one day, but it won't matter who wins which title, it's all up to booking. Independents need someone to save titles to get people to care. WWE already has a very large fan base and doesn't need to prove anything anymore.

See, CBF, I'd argue that: 1) Rhyno could be credible. Give him a slow build and allow him to gain a reputation as a powerhouse and a bruiser. The fact that he's shorter and stockier adds to his "aura" of aggression and makes him more credible. The dude lives up to his name, and fans would believe he is as powerful as they would make him seem.

2)I think the WWE titles DO need someone to give them more credibility. WWE's fanbase is slowly decreasing and part of the reason is because no one believes the belts are as important as they used to be. Part of this is because of the hot-shotting the belts, partly because the way the belts are won/lost aren't as legitimate as they used to be. Champion's who win and lose cleanly and credibly would actually help the product.

I enjoyed his promos in ECW. I agree about being short and stocky though, I think he'd make a better IC champ.

Corn pops bow to Apple Jacks, Swiggy.


And Fuck the WWE. I quit on them months ago. The only way the titles are going to be anywhere NEAR credible again is if they're actually DEFENDED more than once a month.

coughcoughGOLDBERGcoughcough

Yea, I know. That's only one. :D

The Corn Pops reference is a Big Show joke.

Goldbergs gimmick (if he had one) was destroying everyone in WCW.

In WWF, anyone credible would take him to the limit, so technically WWE stripped him of his gimmick and recreated him the way they wanted.

Good booking would save the titles but this is who I'd feel the most confidence in if they were champs.


Lesnar -- Either raw or Smackdown

Eddie -- Has the charisma, brings in the fans and has the talent

Benoit -- Always reliable

Edge -- A heel I think people would actually tune in to watch and hate. Not just tune completely away

Big Show -- Haven't seen him lately but he was busting his butt last time I did. He would have a lot of problems in the past with booking though that doesn't make him as credable as he could be today.

Jericho -- The fact he's still alive in the hearts of fans says wonders about him because he has gone through a lot of poor booking as well.

Holy fuck, the guy from Rolling Germans posts here? You're the reason I'm here, indirectly. I asked you about Puro EONS ago, and you sent me to TSM which led me here. SO EVERYONE: ITS HIS FAULT!

He's been here longer than you, LFV.

I think Batista is the only person that can save the Raw Title right now. He's the only person that hasn't had his credibility shredded by jobbing to Triple H.

Smackdown is a lost cause. JBL has killed the importance of the title due to the fact he's getting a non-push while champion. I don't see how they could book him any worse right now. Big Show might be the best shot they have if they start pushing him now and give him the belt at Mania.

I see what you mean with JBL Maddog. Heres the thing, JBL has really been busting it in the ring, and cutting some fairly good promos. Its a shame the way he is being booked. Reminds me of Jericho's undisputed Title run where the only person he beat clean was Maven.

Yeah, it's a lot like that except they seem to want to draw this title reign out forever. It almost seems like a cruel joke at this point with how long the reign has been going.

I really wish they would try something new. The HTM model has only worked once and trying to recreate it with every heel champion gets really old.

Which is why I started this thread. I think the titles need some credibility restored. Until a week or two ago, the ROH title was more important to me than the WWE titles. It's still up there, though.

I think going the Japanese route is probably the best way to restore credibility. There should be no more than 4 title changes a year and 4 should only be in cases of emergency.

Also the title should be defended less. Have it defended on PPV almost exclusively.

I don't know... ROH doesn't make a profit, they're an indepent promotion, and thus don't have a big enough fanbase to be compared to the WWE Title.

Also just to throw in. They need to go back to guys wearing titles around their waist. It doesn't help the credibility of titles when you have guys like Austin throwing the belt around like a piece of trash. Why should the fans care about a title when the champion doesn't give a shit about the belt?

As for RoH, sure it's an indy promotion but it says a lot when you've got smarks buying into the credibility of a title moreso than you can get marks to buy into the WWF Titles.

I find the WWE Title lightyears more credible than ROH HW Title, because of the history to it.... the Smackdown one, not RAW, which only (according to the PWI almanac) starts from only a few years ago.

The WWE Title has the history of Bruno Sammartino, Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H when he didn't suck... Just because the booking of the champion this year was bad doesn't tarnish a titles history, unless it becomes a prop like the European or Hardcore Titles were.

I frankly don't find it credible at all. It's rare that it finds a home around someone's waist for longer than 6 months anymore. The fact that a mid-carder has had one of the longest reigns in years further devalues it to me. It's getting close to being the NWA Title during the mid 90s.

The only titles that I currently care about are the Triple Crown and the IWGP. And let me tell you the IWGP hasn't been doing itself any favors lately either.

I say, have Edge or Benoit win the World title at New Year's Revolution, and then eventually drop it to Batista.

As for the WWE title, have Cena defeat JBL for it at Wrestlemania and the title will be saved for two reasons:

1) The previous champ had an insanely long reign with it.

2) The hot new star wins it at the biggest show of the year.

The ROH title is almost as important as the WWE titles in my eyes because it has been harder to win. The matches for the belt have been better than most WWE PPV ME's, and I've considered the champ a difficult to beat man.

Look at the World Heavyweight Title history. HHH has held it 4 times in two years. Benoit, Goldberg, Orton, and HBK have also held it. 5 champs in 2 years. That's ridiculous.

As for the WWE Belt, I haven't felt that they've had a credible reign for the belt in years. Since 01. That's horrible.

when the ROH title is mentioned, it helps that Samoa Joe held it for something like 2 years......adding to the credibility. it depends on wether people see him as a credible champ, though.


as far as the WWE titles, it doesn't help that not enough credible opponents are challenging for the titles. when we've got JBL as the WWE Champ, it takes away from the title....for reasons i'll explain. since JBL was teaming with Ron Simmons about 2 or 3 months before winning the title, it's hard to take his title reign seriously. when HHH is dominant over so many opponents, it's hard to believe that he'll lose the Raw title, as it's seen that he has no legitimate challengers.


so, this creates some flaws in the title reigns. undeserving people either become champs or wrestlers become champs for way too long, as there aren't enough serious threats to a belt.

This is why it seems as credible to me. But also, because Samoa Joe allowed his opponents to look good in their challenges. It would help the RAW title if HHH made his opponents look as good as himself in their title challenges. This is part of what makes Joe a credible champ. Every match looks like he could lose it, but he didn't. Hell, even Rocky Romero looked like he had a chance.

Part of why I think this happens is because they're too quick to start and end feuds that don't involve HHH vs HBK. As soon as it looks like it may flounder, they drop it. What I think would help immensely is: A) use clean finishes in title matches, and B) have long drawn out feuds that gets the crowd begging to see the match. WWE hasn't been good at this since the Vince vs Austin feud. In fact, they have two guys on their payroll who know how to do it, and they don't utilise them: Jim Cornette and Paul Heyman.