Who is one guy that gets praised to high heaven that you just don't get. Honestly, I don't think Homicide is that great in the ring. As a character he's awesome, but I find a lot of his matches very repetitive. Jay Lethal is the same for me. He's good, but I don't see this "Future World Champion" thing with him. He takes punishment well, but on offence he just doesn't do it for me.

What about ya'll?

I'm the exact opposite on Cide. I love his ring work, but his character seems really old, and his look is just plain bad.

For me, I'd say Jimmy Jacobs. Does absolutely nothing for me. Works almost exclusively comedy, and it isn't even funny.

Very interesting question LFV. I'm curious to see what we get.

I really can't say much on Jacobs, as I first saw him live and have heard that you don't really "Get him" untill you see him live. I've heard his IWA: MS matches are a lot more technical than his ROH Work.

Steve Corino.

I was just waiting for that.

Yeah, I know. One of us had to get that name out.

I like Corino better on commentary than in the ring. But his intro's are hella funny.

Los Maximos and Amazing Red. I can't remember how much time I wasted watching these losers who apparently "ruled" according to Indy mutants.

I can't believe I read Homcide's name in this thread. I was thinking Steve Corino right away but since he's been brought up....................

Super Dragon

I haven't seen a SD match, so I can't say. Red was good at one point, and the SAT seemed good at first, just as that WOW factor as I got into Indies. But they fizzled once I saw what was out there. Red was actually good but his style caught up with him and injuries killed him.

IMO, the SAT's were always the shits.

Them EMO kids aren't keen on those more urban wrestlers. They want a wrestler that's more in touch with his emotions and will sneak a little reach around on them during autograph signings.

No, Emo kids just haven't gotten any tapes from So-Cal. Douche. We had a legit topic and you just bust in with a total post for flaming.... Gah. Whatever.

Geez dude, settle down there. It was just a joke.

I'll agree with that one. I'll add another one that most probably won't agree with:

Chris Hero

I like Hero and I can see where you're coming from though. He's decent enough but there are some guys that he doesn't mesh well with or he gimmicks the match out and it's not as good as it could have been. He can be really good sometimes though too.........

Super Dragon's got really good at pacing his matches and using spots at the right time. Sure he's a stiff asshole, but that's his gimmick. I can definately see where the hate comes from though.

Chris Hero I agree is overrated, but not to the point that some people claim he is. I just hate the fact he has to wrestle hour long matches when the same match could be accomplished in half the time.

Speaking of which, CM Punk was really overrated. Really inconsistant in that he could be "on" one night, and stink up the joint the next. Some of his IWA-MS stuff was terrible, but I liked most of his ROH stuff with the exception of a few matches.

Hell yeah. I couldn't agree more. I remember getting into punk in or around 02-03 so I tried to see as much of his stuff that I could. I don't like the majority of his IWA-MS stuff from that period.

I've never seen a bad CM Punk match... (probibly because I only get ROH...)

Definetly Punk. I like him and all, but Jesus Christ was he overpimped.

Everyone else in this thread, with the exception of the SAT, I love.

How was Punk overpimped? The only thing I can think of is his penchant for doing matches that are longer than they need to be, seemingly just because he can. That's all though. He can have good matches with anyone. He even made Julio Deniro interesting in their breif stint in TNA. (Near Death Experiance, bitches.)

Number one, I always liked Julio, but that was because he was a nice guy.

The thing about Punk is that most everyone involved in the indy scene was on his dick to an alarming extent. He certainlly had his share of good to great matches, including his IWA-MS stuff with Delirious, his series with Joe, his tag matches against the Briscoes, his Raven fued, and more. He was also solid in his TNA run. My gripe with Punk wasn't his ability, it was people talking about him like he was better than he was. I perfer a number of indy guys over him, including Joe, AJ, Daniels, Aries, Low-Ki, Homicide, Cabana, etc. It was just my personal view of him clashing with the common view of him that made him over rated in my book.

Ah. Okay. Gotcha.

And his match with M-Dogg20 from the TPI in 2002 was one of the worst matches I have ever seen. I know that has nothing to do with Punk being bad, as it's freaking M-Dogg20, but LFV said he had never seen a bad Punk match, so I just had to point that out.

His match with Jay Lethal from a Ring of Honor show last year was pretty bad, too.

The good definately outweighs the bad, but I too get tired of the constant Punk love on the net, like he was the second coming of Chris Benoit or something. He's nothing special in the ring really, very talented on the mic.

I've never said he's compared to Chris Beniot at all. Technically, he's not in his league, but saying he's "nothing special" in the ring isn't correct. He has good matches with a tonne of diferent people, who work very different styles. Plus he works his heel stuff INTO the match, instead of tacking it on as an afterthought. He's no Bryan Danielson, but saying he's just average is shortchanging him by a lot.

I guess he's not average, but he's right in the middle in that he's no Joe or Danielson, but he's WAY more talented than say a Kevin Steen.

I agree that he can have a ton of good matches from various styles, but what I was talking about is how I'm sick of these whiny kids who get on the net and say "CM Punk is better than you and so am I because I'm straight edge too, sXe 4 life bro" and shit like that. Punk works the straight edge thing well, but all these so called "followers" who can't seem to get off Punk's dick bother me. That's why I said I have nothing against the guy.

Ah. Gotcha. Now to draw more heat upon myself, but I'd take Punk of Styles. WHat about you guys?

Let's not forget how awful some of those Raven/Punk RoH matches were.

EXACTLY.......I actually thought that whole ROH feud was shitty.

And what makes Punk look really bad is that Raven was actually on a hot streak match wise during that feud.

I enjoyed all but the first cage match in that fued.

I actually havent' seen that feud (I jumped in around The FB03). But I think I'm going to get the first Best of Punk DVD to see it. I liked their MLW and TNA stuff though.

I'd say Punk is just barely better than Styles right now. Styles has improved GREATLY within the last couple of years by working with Danielson, Joe, Daniels, etc., but he still will occasionally forget to sell. It's not as bad as it used to be though.

Both have some ridiciously business exposing moves they need to ditch, Styles with the quebrada DDT and probably some others, and Punk's Pepsi Plunge comes off as some backyarder trying to be Triple H off the top rope or something. I'm glad Punk's been using the Anaconda Vice a lot more recently, and of course we won't be seeing any Pepsi Plunge in the WWE anyway.

Punk and AJ are both wrestlers I'd put near the top of the indy scene, behind guys like Danielson, Joe, Shelley, etc. but above guys like Jimmy Rave, Kevin Steen, and so on.

I love AJ. That's basically because his matches with Ki and Lynn made me a wrestling fan again, but AJ is my favorite worker and has been since 2002. He's always smoked Punk in my book.

IMHO, AJ has always smoked Punk in the ring too. I absolutely HATE the anaconda vice as a finisher for Punk especially because it's hardly been established as a STRONG hold (keep in mind that as far as ROH goes I've only seen up to Manhattan Mayhem so I could be wrong on this.....) at least from what I've seen.

I also HATE when I hear people talk about moves that "expose the business". The business is rigged.........people need to get over that fact. I'm all for realism in wrestling..................but it's been so bastardized by now it doesn't really matter that much. The only place in the world where that really matters anyway is Japan...............

AJ over Punk in ring, easily in my opinion. Punk obviously has him in other categories.

Yeah, what's with the sudden IWC turn on Styles?

Simple answer..........people are fucking retarded.

I figured it had something to do with him leaving RoH last year. The mutants always seem to suddenly think guys suck when they leave. Remember how much Chad Collyer sucked for those 2 months he was in TNA but was suddenly good again when he was just working with RoH?

Yea, screw that. I'm a big ROH fan, but that doesn't mean that I don't realize that AJ and Daniels were still awesome in TNA, and guys like Mike Quackenbush and Chris Hero were good outside it.